[meteorite-list] Antartic treaty

From: Rob McCafferty <rob_mccafferty_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun Jun 4 21:02:57 2006
Message-ID: <20060605002358.67916.qmail_at_web50912.mail.yahoo.com>

Oh please!

EvenI can tell the difference between the fusion crust
of a lunarite and an H5 chondrite, even if it's been
weathered. The labs are not "doing a favour", the guys
who find this stuff just have a good idea what they're
looking for? Is that so hard to accept?

You complain that they are making money but without
them, the world would be a dozen lunarite's poorer.
They'd be out in the desert, rotting away. Are YOU
going to scour the whole sahara for them?

I know the arguments against NWA but what you gonna
do? The USA cannot declare war on every country it
suspects (with or wihout proof) of terrorist activity.


Tonnes and tonnes of rock have been harvested in the
last 10 years or so and the really good stuff is being
analysed first. Soon there'll be nothing left and they
can examine what's left. When there's no new stuff,
the dealers will have hard times.

You shouldn't give dealers a hard time just because
they happen to be in the right place at the right
time. Life is like that. (Boy do I know it)
History is full of examples of it. You cannot give
collectors a hard time because we pay our own money to
buy the stuff. I think I am right in saying academic
institutions pay someone elses money.

Science wants the stuff and so do the public. If
science cannot afford the public prices, then science
does not want the stuff as badly as the public does.
It's as simple as that. If it's a funding issue, take
it up with your benefactors.

Science tends to get at least 20% free of charge. I'd
call that good value. I don't see science releasing
20% of the Antarctica material. I'm sure there would
be plenty of dealers prepared to take it off your
hands should you need the cash.

I apologise to the list. I'm not usually this
beligerent but this argument keeps coming up and just
this once i decided to give it a kick.

Rob McCafferty

Don't go taking your ball home just because someone
won't let you decide who's gonna win before the game
starts.

--- Armando Afonso <armandoafonso_at_oniduo.pt> wrote:

> Hi again.
>
> This is known to everybody, but it clearly shows
> how, in reality, the
> meteorite hunters are seen by the scientific
> comunity, regardless of the
> many times described (by the first) proximity and
> cooperation between them:
> A PLAGUE.
> The problem of Saharan meteorites is exactly the
> same as Antartica`s, and
> should be seen and regulated in the same way, in my
> opinion.
> Instead of this, the legal and knowledge vacuum in
> that countries is used by
> this entrepreneurs, and aplauded by most of us.
> Nobody seams to understand what is lost in this
> process.
> I think honestly, that the entities that classifies
> the martian and lunar
> material for the dealers, make them a BIG favour,
> but are giving a bad
> contribution to the problem.
> Without their participation, that stones would sell
> only as unclassified NWA
> (max. 0.05 USD/Kg).
> More or less the initial value to the discoverers
> (they had lunch that day)!
> Or confiscated...
> Sorry again for one more inconvenient reflection.
> AA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Antarctic Treaty
>
> The Hague, The Netherlands, 11-15 September 2000
>
> ANTARCTIC METEORITES
>
> Working Paper submitted by SCAR
>
> At the meeting of the SCAR Working Group on Geology,
> held in Tokyo, Japan,
> 10-14 July 2000 during XXVI SCAR, serious concerns
> were expressed regarding
> the potential for collection of Antarctic meteorites
> by private expeditions.
> All meteorites have major intrinsic value to science
> and Antarctic
> meteorites have considerable commercial value. These
> factors make the
> collection of Antarctic meteorites very attractive
> not only to scientists
> but also to entrepreneurs. All meteorites collected
> by scientists are lodged
> and catalogued in internationally recognized
> depositories and are made
> freely available for study by the scientific
> community. Meteorites not
> collected by the scientific community may be
> retained in private hands or
> offered for sale at inflated prices so that they are
> effectively lost to
> scientific research.
>
> At XXII SCAR in 1992, SCAR Delegates adopted
> Recommendation XXII-1 on
> "Protection of Geological Specimens", specifying
> meteorites among other
> types of geological specimens. This recommendation
> was noted in the report
> of XVIII ATCM and its general provisions were
> incorporated into ATCM
> Recommendation XVIII-1, specifically in the
> Attachment to the Recommendation
> at Section E) paragraph 4). However, specific
> reference to meteorites, and
> to other items identified by SCAR, was omitted. In
> the current situation,
> SCAR wishes to re-emphasize the vulnerability of
> geological specimens,
> particularly meteorites, to unrestricted collecting
> and has adopted the
> following recommendation.
>
> Recommendation XXVI SCAR-10
>
> On the collection of Antarctic meteorites
>
> Noting that members of certain private expeditions
> are apparently going to
> Antarctica with the expressed aim of collecting
> meteorites for subsequent
> sale,
>
> Concerned that meteorites collected in this way will
> be lost to science, and
>
> Mindful of SCAR Recommendation XXII-1,
>
> SCAR recommends that National Committees, via their
> governments, request the
> ATCM to take a stronger position on Recommendation
> XXII-1 that states:
>
> "SCAR recommends that:
>
> 1. Geological specimens, such as fossils, minerals,
> meteorites, volcanic
> bombs and ventifacts in Antarctica should be
> collected for scientific or
> educational purposes and not for commercial gain;
>
> 2. Geological samples collected from Antarctica for
> these purposes should be
> properly curated in institutions accessible to the
> scientific community and,
> wherever possible, should be publicly displayed."
>
> The papers and discussions that led to the
> formulation of the recommendation
> are attached to this paper in Annexes 1-4 as
> follows:
>
> Annex 1: E-mail message from Professor Gregory
> Herzog, Chairperson of the
> Meteorite Working Group, to Professor Ross Powell,
> US Representative to the
> SCAR Working Group on Geology
>
> Annex 2: Paper prepared for the SCAR Working Group
> on Geology by Dr Ralph P.
> Harvey, Principal Investigator, Antarctic Search for
> Meteorites Program
>
> Annex 3: Press Release by Space Adventures Ltd,
> dated July 17, 2000
>
> Annex 4: Extract from the draft Report of the SCAR
> Working Group on Geology,
> Tokyo, Japan, 10-14 July 2000
>
> ______________________________
>
> Annex 1
>
> Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 14:46:07 -0400
>
> From: herzog herzog_at_rutchem.rutgers.edu
>
> To: ross_at_geol.niu.edu
>
> Subject: Antarctic meteorites: some issues for SCAR
>
> Dear Prof. Powell:
>
> I write to you in your capacity as the US
> representative to the Scientific
> Committee on Antarctic Research. As you no doubt
> know, the Antarctic is a
> wonderful place for finding meteorites. Most of the
> lunar and Martian
> meteorites in the world's collections come from
> there as do many other rare
> meteorites of great scientific value. Lately, I have
> become concerned about
> the implications of Antarctic meteorite collections
> undertaken by
> non-governmental agencies. For more than twenty
> years, several elements of
> existing government programs have allowed
> researchers to take full advantage
> of the recovery of Antarctic meteorites:
>
> 1) careful and consistent documentation on
> collection;
>
> 2) sustained curation of high quality; and
>
> 3) availability, on an impartial, cost-free, and
> timely basis, of samples to
> working scientists around the world.
>
> I believe that governmental agencies are more likely
> to build and sustain
> programs that have these elements than are
> non-governmental ones. We know
> from experience that both the Japanese and the U.S.
> meteorite programs have
> consistently provided samples in this way to the
> international community.
>
> A related issue of possible interest to SCAR seems
> likely to arise some time
> soon, namely, the conditions under which Antarctic
> samples originally
>
=== message truncated ===>
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Received on Sun 04 Jun 2006 08:23:58 PM PDT