[meteorite-list] Re:Comet hit Britain in mid sixth, RE-POSTED

From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun Jul 23 22:12:20 2006
Message-ID: <20060724021217.42256.qmail_at_web36915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all -

Right good p'ing match here - everybody get out your
raincoats

> Yes, Marco, History is Change. But there are also
> those "with a known fetish" AGAINST impacts or
> any other physical event as a source" for any
> historical change.

Let us include here one David Morrison, who has wasted
tens of millions in US taxpayers dollars looking for a
non-existent "Nemesis" gravitational attractor, while
entirely arbitrarily setting cometary impact at no
more than 5% of the impact hazard.

> Where? Where are the dust layers in peat deposits,
> lake deposits, deep sea cores, ice cores from
Greenland and Antarctica for example?

> All there is, is a set of narrow tree rings. No
> more.

Not in the Americas. There is about 20 feet of
"marine " deposits overlaying the Olmec site of La
Venta. The Maya claimed that this was cometary impact
tsunami deposit, but then what did they know?

There is 6 feet of "marine" sediment separating
Savanah River from Vincent in North Carolina.
 
> Again: Where are the dust layers in peat deposits,
> lake deposits, deep sea cores, ice cores from
Greenland and Antarctica?
> Where are they?

Since my stroke, I don't know off the top of my head,
but Baillie does. So does Keys. Their question is
source.

Those "tree rings" that you so arbitrarily wave your
hands at, Marco, are prima facie evidence of massive
climatic collapse and starvation.
 
> This whole grand scenario has virtually NIL evidence
> in terms of proxy data.
> It's science fiction.

Marco, aside from the tree ring data and the ice core
data, you're also ignoring contemporary text evidence
of these climatic collapses.

> >> Complex societies are inherently instable.
> There's no need for a clear-cut external prime-mover
to make such a society collapse.

Yes, but where we have one we'd do well to listen to
the ancients' warnings of it.

> What I meant with my PhD remark, is that you really
> don't have to lecture me on the character of history
and historical process. Because that is exactly where
I
> have been scientifically educated in. And from your
> remarks which I address above, it is very clear that
YOU don't have an idea about the science of history
> at all. You lack even the most basic understanding.
> You drop impressive terms but have no idea what
they mean. You even seem to lack any real insight in
> scientific methodology.

Cheap shot, Marco. Any appeal by Sterling to data you
dismiss as psuedo-archaeology, based on your
credentials and theory. None of the folks who taught
you, and none of theory they used, ever even
considered impact or dust loading.
 
> So I am not talking about paradigm shifts here,

Well, I am.

> And yes, there will allways be rearguard battles
when
paradigms make a major shift. But you really cannot
make an argument that this is the case with the topic
currently under discusssion. That is too cheap, and
such an appeal on partisan courage is actually the
hallmark of many pseudo-science advocates (because it
> is easy, too easy, to make).

Generally, most of our pseudo science archaeology
comes from two arrogant Frenchmen, Abbe Basseur and
Augustus Le Plungeon. They also made a lot of appeals
to their "apparat". Thankfully Brinton shut them down.
 Lesson: Watch out for arrogant academics.

The other basis for psuedo archaeology is all of that
evidence of impact processes - the psuedo scientists
do wicked things with it, including setting up
religions.

>> As far as short-term climatic fluctuation is
> concerned, there is much more cause to look at
variations in solar flux as a possible explanation .
>>
> > I want to stop and savor this moment when we
> agree almost perfectly.

You know, if you don't eat for a few years, you're
dead.

Thankfully this is NASA's problem now, and no ammount
of hand waving is going to get them out of it. Is
there anything else you'd like me to tell the radio
audience?

That's $34.95 plus shipping and handling for "Man and
Impact in the Americas" at 1-877-494-0044.

good hunting -
EP

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Received on Sun 23 Jul 2006 10:12:17 PM PDT