[meteorite-list] AD: METEORITE CLASSIFICATION SERVICE

From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri Jul 14 10:36:47 2006
Message-ID: <93aaac890607140345m58b53b31o85e10ff9e39840f8_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hello Stan, All,
Well, lets take this apart, eh?

*>"Save the space rocks! The meteorites are vanishing and if something isn't
done soon, most of Earth's rare space rocks could be gone in a lifetime or
so says the University of Arizona's Southwest Meteorite Center, a newly
founded organization created to combat what a UA scientist and a private
meteorite collector identify as part of the problem: collectors. *

 *I see no evidence of this quote in the article that you sent a link for.
I'd like to know where you found it. Because it wasn't in that article. *
**
In any case, it's true for the most part. I've seen many unlabeled estate
sale specimens up on ebay with no history to speak of, and no useful
information to identify them. It's true that many collections are dispersed
in a correct fashion at the time of the collectors' deaths, but vast amounts
of material are lost as well.
Stating that the majority of specimens will be lost within the next
generation or so of collectors is pessimistic, I admit, but who's going to
go around knocking on collectors' doors as we drop dead in a few years
asking to buy our old collections from our relatives...or will they just be
thrown out with those damn astronomy magazines and books...? A good portion
will quite simply be tossed, and you know it.

*> Samples that have fallen over millions of years are being found and
collected over
just a few decades. *

Also true.

*> Dealers are buying meteorites at prices the scientific
community cannot match and cutting them into small pieces for sale to
bidders in a flooded market. *

Undeniable, in any way, shape, or form.

*>In an attempt to save the space stones from
becoming slivers, the SWMC will offer collectors, dealers and enthusiasts a
fair price to obtain part of the vanishing meteorite legacy."
*
Sounds like a good goal to me...are you disagreeing?

And what's your point in bringing up a newspaper article? We all know how
accurately they report things...it was most likely over-dramatized to make
the problem seem more than it really is - viz., if you think it's not that
big of a problem in the first place....

In any case, if you have concerns about the goals of the project, I'd look
for reputable evidence before assuming that it's correct. I've spoken with
Marvin several times about the project. Instead of taking a reporter's word
for his opinions, you can have his real ones from me, that I
heard firsthand. Furthermore, seeing as he's a collector himself, it seems
rather odd that he'd be anti-collecting now...and I know he isn't.
Hell, here's a real quote - one that came out of his mouth.

>"The whole point of what we're doing is to prevent people from cutting
every rare meteorite into tiny, little pieces," said Marvin Killgore of
Payson, Ariz.

= > Anti-collector? I think not.
= > Anti-micro-collector? Maybe, but so am I to a degree.
Why have a tray of tiny bits when one could focus their funds and purchase a
single spectacular specimen? If something's worth doing, it should be done
well...no brainer in my opinion. Micros fill a human urge to make a
collection of something I guess, but it takes some of the fun - and all of
the awe - out of collecting. I, for example, find it much more exciting to
hold, say, a ten kilo iron, than a few tiny lunar micros, but maybe that's
just me.

Well, now to get to your message.

*>Quite the contrary to this notion I feel that private collectors CAN and
DO
serve to protect the science that lies trapped in meteorites. I cant speak
for all collectors (although i know othes who do this) but just this week I
recived a request from a lab in europe for samples of material in my
collection and I'll probably get around to sending them out after the
weekend. I even offered to look for specific material they want that I dont
have but may be able to aquire.*

Well, they can, but would the University of Arizona do a better job under
Marvin's supervision? I think yes, at least more than the average
collector.
Furthermore, the program will allow institutions to cut out the step where
they ask a collector for material. They'll simply ask the University of
Arizona, who (maybe in exchange for some other material), I'm sure, would be
willing to oblige them.

*>essentially all unusual meteorites get classified. that means type
specimins
of all the 'good stuff' are being curated already, protecting the scientific
legacy. *

Well that's a nice, broad, and untrue statement.
Hmmm. I wonder how many carbonaceous, rumuruti, kakangari, and primitive
chondrites are sitting in boxes somewhere gathering dust. It wasn't a real
problem in pre-NWA times, but now that there are plenty of meteorites not
only for serious collectors, but also for the casual rock collector or
twelve-year-old's desk, I fail to see how you can make such an assertion.
Hell, ureilites were being discovered in Tucson by the tens of kilos, mixed
in with ordinary material and being sold for pennies per gram. There's no
telling how many were simply lost to the casual person who decided that
they'd like a meteorite for a paperweight.

Furthermore, this U of A program will not simply focus on rare types. It
will also need common material - the same stuff you deem worthless still has
scientific value...fyi.

>* the only thing 'new' about the SWMC is an organization trying to
raise major funds to aquire major chunks of what is avalible to the public -
above and beyond the simple curation of type specimins.*

Major chunks, eh? Sounded like they'd take what they could get. The bigger
the better, yeah, but I think even you'd agree with that philosophy. Hell,
all collectors do.
Are you saying that it's wrong when a collector buys a main mass and doesn't
cut it up to divide it into pieces for all of his fellow collectors? That's
what you seem to be implying....

I'd like to hear your response Stan...especially about that odd
quote....where'd it come from anyways?

Regards,
Jason

On 7/14/06, stan . <laser_maniac_at_hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >The samples would be available
> >for the future experiments that anyone might conceive - rather than
> sitting
> >lost in some dusty drawer...or in a membrane box, decaying away on
> >someone's
> >desk.
>
> Quite the contrary to this notion I feel that private collectors CAN and
> DO
> serve to protect the science that lies trapped in meteorites. I cant speak
> for all collectors (although i know othes who do this) but just this week
> I
> recived a request from a lab in europe for samples of material in my
> collection and I'll probably get around to sending them out after the
> weekend. I even offered to look for specific material they want that I
> dont
> have but may be able to aquire. My problem with this whole issue is
> reading
> articles like this:
>
> "Save the space rocks! The meteorites are vanishing and if something isn't
> done soon, most of Earth's rare space rocks could be gone in a lifetime or
> so says the University of Arizona's Southwest Meteorite Center, a newly
> founded organization created to combat what a UA scientist and a private
> meteorite collector identify as part of the problem: collectors. Samples
> that have fallen over millions of years are being found and collected over
> just a few decades. Dealers are buying meteorites at prices the scientific
> community cannot match and cutting them into small pieces for sale to
> bidders in a flooded market. In an attempt to save the space stones from
> becoming slivers, the SWMC will offer collectors, dealers and enthusiasts
> a
> fair price to obtain part of the vanishing meteorite legacy."
>
> http://uanews.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/UANews.woa/24/wa/SRStoryDetails?ArticleID=12216
>
> That sounds pretty darn anti-private collection and pretty darn pro-'soak
> up
> whatever we can' to me.
>
> essentially all unusual meteorites get classified. that means type
> specimins
> of all the 'good stuff' are being curated already, protecting the
> scientific
> legacy. the only thing 'new' about the SWMC is an organization trying to
> raise major funds to aquire major chunks of what is avalible to the public
> -
> above and beyond the simple curation of type specimins.
>
>
>
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Received on Fri 14 Jul 2006 06:45:12 AM PDT