[meteorite-list] Martian Find Raises Chances of Life

From: mark ford <markf_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 14:51:37 -0000
Message-ID: <6CE3EEEFE92F4B4085B0E086B2941B316584B3_at_s-southern01.s-southern.com>

>>Life seems to be unstoppable!

Yes it is unstoppable, but the question is how 'un-startable' is it?!




-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Pete [mailto:rsvp321 at hotmail.com]
Sent: 07 December 2006 14:33
To: mark ford; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Find Raises Chances of Life

>>on earth it took billions
of years and a lot of near perfect environmental factors, to even start it

Hi, Mark,

Actually, it only took life < one billion years to sprout, and under very
hostile and poisonous conditions!

Life seems to be unstoppable!

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2004/10.07/15-origins.html

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/neo/life.html

Cheers,
Pete


From: "mark ford" <markf at ssl.gb.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Find Raises Chances of Life
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:39:19 -0000



Yes, agreed naturally, and I am not saying there possibly isn't life out
there, and we should be interested in Mars absolutley, BUT - caution, a few
wet streaks down a hillside is a million miles away from there being alien
life forms on mars. I bet there are planets out there in space with entire
oceans but no life...

I just feel there should be much more direct evidence of life on mars, it's
everywhere you look on earth, if there is martian life it's certainly doing
its best to not show itself - it's just a very thin case at the moment
(imho)

The difference with the advanced, well adapted extremophiles on earth is,
basically there is little evidence that they evolved before other life
forms, So it is reasonable to assume they evolved from other life forms to
thrive in these harsher environments, therefore you would need an earth like
place to start life off in the first place (as far as we know it), mars is
looking quite different, but interesting none the less.

Really I just question the assumption that's being made, 'that anywhere in
the solar system with a patch of water' will spawn life - on earth it took
billions of years and a lot of near perfect environmental factors, to even
start it, then it is still quite fragile even after billions of years of a
good atmosphere and plenty of stable environmental factors, and <an
atmosphere> don't forget mars is very very hostile, very very low pressure,
very cold, high UV, high radiation, and [mostly] dry.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Redfern [mailto:gredfern at earthlink.net]
Sent: 07 December 2006 11:58
To: mark ford; meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Martian Find Raises Chances of Life

Hi List,

   I just want to point out that a whole class of life here on Earth -
Extremophiles - have been found to be living in the most hostile places
such as ocean thermal vents and other places with extreme cold and heat.
There is also a search underway for life within the interior of the
Chesapeake Bay Impact Crater (CBIC) which would mimic in many ways a
Martian crater with liquid water underground as the NASA MGS photos
suggest may be happening.

A biologist on last year's CBIC core sample expedition stated that the
life forms they are "99% sure" exist within CBIC would eat rock using
enzymes, live in extreme pressure and heat in an anaerobic environment.
The lead biologist on the team is using this research and possible
findings to apply to a similar search for life on Mars.

   The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) and the August 2007 lift off the
Phoenix Lander will give us more data on this whole question. After all,
extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. But I for one believe
that life is a very powerful force that finds a way to exist in a wide
variety of circumstances.

Personally, and I emphasize personally, I am pretty sure that MGS
recorded an outburst of underground water in those craters at Centauri
Montes and Terra Sirenum. Disturbances caused by dust devils, wind and
our own Rovers leave DARK traces of their activity. It is very hard to
make light toned artifacts on Mars. Even looking at the new impact
craters revealed they were for the most part dark impact sites - even
the ejecta, although one new crater in Arabia Terra had light toned
ejecta.

Bottom line is that Mars is a very, very interesting and dynamic planet
to explore. I can hardly wait for the more powerful MRO camera nd its
suite of instruments to return data on these two gullies.

All the best,

Greg Redfern
NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html
WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE
http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of mark
ford
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:41 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Find Raises Chances of Life



Well, reading between the sensationalist headlines, it could very well
be liquid co2 or even just dust, they don't know, - (but as usual people
seem to be staring past the other options in favour of 'here's water
therefore there's life' ). Not true - water does not mean there is life.


Water is one tiny component needed to support life, yes. But an
ATMOSPHERE and some ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE would be a good start too...!.

mark

________________________________________
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Freeman mjwy
Sent: 06 December 2006 17:22
To: Ron Baalke
Cc: Meteorite Mailing List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Find Raises Chances of Life

Dear Ron, Other scientists with paleobotanical background, Dirk;

What are the chances of stromatolite fossils actually being found? on
Mars?? I am turning blue from holding my breath.
Anyone care to venture any odds of a rock with laminations being found??
Banded Iron Formation or Prokaryotae?
Best,
Dave Freeman
Dealing in Archean Earth stromatolites
eBay ID mjwy
STROMATOLITE-GUIDE-or-finding-the-Rodney-Dangerfield_W0QQugidZ1000000000
2432833




Ron Baalke wrote:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/A
rticle_Type1&c=Article&cid=1165406828171&call_pageid=968332188492

Martian find raises chances of life
ALICIA CHANG
ASSOCIATED PRESS
December 6, 2006

LOS ANGELES - A provocative new study of photographs taken from orbit
suggests that liquid water flowed on the surface of Mars as recently as
Several years ago, raising the possibility that the Red Planet could
harbour an environment favourable to life.

The crisp images taken by the Mars Global Surveyor do not directly show
water. Rather, they show apparently recent changes in surface features
that provide the strongest evidence yet that water even now sometimes
flows on the dusty, frigid world. Water and a stable heat source are
considered keys for life to emerge.

Until now, the question of liquid water has focused on ancient Mars, and
on the Martian north pole, where water ice has been detected. Scientists
have long noted Martian features that appear to have been scoured by
water or look like shorelines, and have tried to prove that the Red
Planet had liquid water eons ago.

"This underscores the importance of searching for life on Mars, either
present or past," said Bruce Jakosky, an astrobiologist at the
University of Colorado at Boulder, who had no role in the study. "It's
one more reason to think that life could be there.''

The new findings were published Wednesday in the journal Science and
NASA scheduled a news conference for Wednesday afternoon to announce the
results.

Oded Aharonson, an assistant professor of planetary science at the
California Institute of Technology, said that while the interpretation
of recent water activity on Mars was "compelling," it's just one
possible explanation. Aharonson said further study is needed to
determine whether the deposit could have been left there by the flow of
dust rather than water.

The latest research emerged when the Global Surveyor spotted gullies and
trenches that scientists believed were geologically young and carved by
fast-moving water coursing down cliffs and steep crater walls.

Scientists at the San Diego-based Malin Space Science Systems, who
operate a camera aboard the spacecraft, decided to retake photos of
thousands of gullies in search of evidence of recent water activity.

Two gullies that were originally photographed in 1999 and 2001 and
re-imaged in 2004 and 2005 showed changes consistent with water flowing
down the crater walls, according to the study.

In both cases, scientists found bright, light-colored deposits in the
gullies that weren't present in the original photos. They concluded the
deposits - possibly mud, salt or frost - were left there when water
recently cascaded through the channels.

The Global Surveyor, managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory,
abruptly lost radio contact with Earth last month. Attempts to locate
the spacecraft, which has mapped Mars since 1996, have failed and
scientists fear it is unusable.

NASA's durable Mars rovers have sent scientists strong evidence that the
planet once had liquid water at or near the surface, based on
observations of alterations in ancient rocks.

"We're now realizing Mars is more active than we previously thought and
that the mid-latitude section seems to be where all the action is," said
Arizona State University scientist Phil Christensen, who was not part of
the current research.

Mars formed more than 4.5 billion years ago and scientists generally
believe it went through an early wet and warm era that ended after 1.5
billion to 2.5 billion years, leaving the planet extremely dry and cold.

Water can't remain a liquid for long because of subzero surface
temperatures and low atmospheric pressure that would turn water into ice
or gas.

But some studies have pointed to the possibility of liquid water flowing
briefly on the surface through a possible underground water source that
periodically shoots up like an aquifer.

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Received on Thu 07 Dec 2006 09:51:37 AM PST