[meteorite-list] OT An open message to all list members

From: joseph_town_at_att.net <joseph_town_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon Aug 28 11:31:13 2006
Message-ID: <082820060152.26784.44F24C60000DD241000068A021602807480299019BA1089F0A9C0106_at_att.net>

Hey,

Every city has a Bozo. Don't blame it on Chicago. LA Bozo was more renowned than Chi Bobozo.

Bill


 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Mark" <mam602_at_cox.net>
> It is the same old argument that has STAINED this list for the 6+ years I
> have been on it. The guy in chicago who needs no intro. Between spamming
> with sales offers over and over, mindless blathering for trades,
> unscrupulous transactions and his ever popular "anything you can do I can do
> better" bragging about his collection.
>
> Sooner or later you are all going to just quit giving this guy his 15 minute
> of fame.
>
> He is notorious, why is anyone still listening to him or doing business with
> him and why is he once again getting his 15 minutes of fame?
>
> Sooner or later you all will learn that the Bozo the Clown show is based in
> Chicago to stay clear of BOZO in Chicago and we will all be better off.
>
> Thanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Freeman mjwy" <dfreeman_at_fascination.com>
> To: "Dave Carothers" <david.carothers_at_verizon.net>
> Cc: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 5:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] An open message to all list members
>
>
> Dear Dave, List;
> It was the idealism of the very infant IMCA to strive to get it's
> members (and the entire meteorite community) to offer a higher level of
> ethics....let me repeat that....It was the ideal of the infant IMCA to
> strive to get it's members to offer a higher level of ethics....
> That being said, is Ssteve an IMCA member, and why would anyone buy from
> anyone who is not a member?
>
> This was the idealism set to task a number of years ago. There will
> always be losers selling meteorites. When the riff-raff and wanta-be's
> become too frequent, maybe the IMCA seal will mean a great more to
> individuals than it does now. If you aren't an IMCA member, why not,
> and if you are, do you support only IMCA member dealers or do you
> support these riffraff sellers that continually (and I am talking about
> a number of years of phony sales tactics in this case) offer suspect
> auctions and bogus claims? The market she is in ruin and it is the
> repeat offenders that continue foreword and get encouragement from the
> uninformed or those that choose to associate with these suspect
> individuals.
> Ssteve's issues have been an issue for all meteorite collectors every
> since he came to the meteorite list and became a meteorite dealer.
> Leopards seldom loose their spots regardless of their seemingly sincere
> claims.
> I am sure there are a couple others that most knowledgeable collectors
> stay away from as well. To a degree, we cannot protect dumb collectors
> from making bad choices with very suspect individuals. I rather to
> think we all should support better quality dealers and let less
> desirable individuals become extinct. The story of
> He-Who's-Name-We-Do-Not-Mention is a prime example of a united meteorite
> community. Petty crooks don't seem to rate this type of excommunication
> these days it would seem.
> Sincerely,
> Dave F.
> IMCA #3864 since the beginning
>
> Dave Carothers wrote:
>
> >To all list members,
> >
> >
> >
> >I’m sure most of you have seen my emails relating to the misrepresentations
> >and falsehoods perpetrated by Steve (Chicago) Arnold in his ads and posts.
> >First of all, let me apologize to the list membership for making these
> >emails public and in effect, loading up your mailboxes. I believe there is
> >good reason, however, for making these emails public. It is for that
> >reason
> >I felt I should explain some of the background issues and provide my
> >rationale below.
> >
> >
> >
> >Everyone on this list has invested a lot of time, effort, and most
> >importantly, money in their respective meteorite collections. I personally
> >take great umbrage at anyone who would jeopardize my collection, either
> >directly or indirectly, by casting ANY doubt on ANY facet or aspect of
> >collecting meteorites. The process of buying and selling meteorites and
> >the
> >specimens themselves ALL have to be genuine and above reproach at ALL times
> >
> >
> >
> >We also have a number of list members who make their living by selling
> >meteorites. I won’t even begin to speak for them, but I’ve seen several of
> >these folks get down and dirty at any potential threat to their
> >livelihood….
> >and rightfully so.
> >
> >
> >
> >My issue with Steve (Chicago) Arnold is that he just doesn’t care what he
> >puts in his ads. In July, when I first caught his ads containing
> >misrepresentations and falsehoods, he told me:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >“WHAT IS IT TO YOU?? MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.”
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I ask you all…. What kind of reply is that? What does that tell you about
> >Steve (Chicago) Arnold’s integrity and morals?
> >
> >
> >
> >Today, I noticed a misrepresentation on one of his eBay sales and mentioned
> >it on the list (as I previously promised I would --- see below). Again, I
> >received these rather disturbing comments from Steve.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >“I REALLY WISH YOU WOULD STOP HARRASING ME ABOUT THIS PETTY BULL****.”
> >[replaced with * so as to not offend]
> >
> >
> >
> >“I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE CONTINOUSLY HARRISING ME FOR NO REASON.”
> >
> >
> >
> >“IT IS NOT YOUR PURPOSE IN LIFE TO POLICE ME OR EBAY,OR ANYONE ELSE IN THIS
> >WORLD EXCEPT YOURSELF.ENOUGH OF THIS BULL****.” [replaced with * so as to
> >not offend]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I’m sorry, but if anyone thinks that perpetrating misrepresentations and
> >falsehoods when selling meteorites is “PETTY BULL****” or that calling it
> >to
> >his attention is “HARRISING ME FOR NO REASON” then WE as a community have
> >REAL problems. This poor pathetic act of his is a scam. I invite all list
> >members to go back to the archives and look at Steve’s MO. If anyone
> >catches him doing something he shouldn’t, he immediate screams that he is
> >being harassed.
> >
> >
> >
> >OK, so why am I getting involved in this? I see Steve (Chicago) Arnold as
> >a
> >direct threat to this great hobby (and in some cases, livelihood) of ours
> >and also more specifically to the time, effort, and money I’ve invested in
> >my collection. As I told Steve several weeks ago:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >“You're a dangerous person, Steve. You're a danger to any and ALL
> >legitimate dealers, sellers, and collectors of meteorites. You're like the
> >auto industry back 40-50 years ago. They used to misrepresent and make
> >false claims about the safety of their vehicles and then, along came a man
> >named Nader.
> >
> >
> >
> >I gave you fair warning in two previous emails that I was 1) going to make
> >it my business "MAKING SURE UNSUSPECTING POTENTIAL BUYERS ARE AWARE OF YOUR
> >LIES" and 2) "any recurrence will again be brought out in a public forum".
> >
> >
> >
> >You now have my undivided attention. I've going to be your own personal
> >Ralph Nader. Every time you post a misleading/untruthful/fraudulent ad,
> >I'm
> >going to expose it... publicly. You're a loose canon on deck and someone
> >needs to expose you for what you are.”
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I told Steve today, that he could stop my posts if he would just stop the
> >misrepresentations and falsehoods.
> >
> >
> >
> >Some of you might be thinking that I’m just picking on Steve. Well, in all
> >honesty, I’ve gone after several other sellers on eBay who have done the
> >same thing (and I'll continue to do so). The responses I got back from
> >them
> >was typically something like… Oh, I’m sorry. I made a mistake and will
> >correct it immediately. Watching these individuals over time and you don’t
> >see a recurrence. In other words, it was a one-time, honest mistake.
> >Steve
> >(Chicago) Arnold has my undivided attention because he does this repeatedly
> >and responds with comments like “WHAT IS IT TO YOU?? MIND YOUR OWN
> >BUSINESS.”
> >
> >
> >
> >Again, I apologize to all list members for these emails. I’m hoping the
> >publicity and peer pressure will convince Steve (Chicago) Arnold develop a
> >different set of morals.
> >
> >______________________________________________
> >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> >
> >
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>
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Received on Sun 27 Aug 2006 09:52:35 PM PDT