[meteorite-list] conflicting viewpoints

From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun Aug 13 21:33:06 2006
Message-ID: <20060814013232.6708.qmail_at_web36914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all -

How are these NWA pieces getting provisional numbers
without positive ids as meteorites and thus samples
being obtained for scientific purposes? Who is
allowing them to be represented as meteorites without
proper id as such? Where is the dealers association?

What happened while I was away? Plese no long replies
- keep it short and sweet.

good hunting,
Ed

--- mhutson_at_pdx.edu wrote:

>
>
>
> This is in response to the posting ?Stop thieves!
> Meteorite marauders of
> Norway!? by Michael Mazur. In his posting, Mr.
> Mazur says ?There aren't many
> of us but I'd like to think that we're not thieves
> who don't care about
> science as is implied by the article. If you
> disagree with Elen's proposal,
> maybe a gentle note explaining how you think
> meteorite collectors and dealers
> can and do help science would be a good idea.?
>
> I am a scientist, not a collector or a dealer, and I
> see a bit of both sides of
> this issue. It is true that many meteorites have
> been found by dealers/hunters
> that would have just sat on the ground otherwise, as
> scientists do not go out
> into the field to search for meteorites (with the
> exception of Antarctica). It
> is also true that in general, a type specimen of
> each meteorite is deposited in
> a repository during classification, making this
> material available to
> scientists for research. I say ?in general?,
> because some of the repositories
> are private collections and it is not clear that
> this material will be
> available to scientists in the future.
>
> So why aren?t scientists jumping up and down in
> happiness. Well, for one thing,
> not all of the material that is found will ever be
> seen by a scientist. A lot
> of meteorites are being sold without being
> classified. I?ve received more than
> one request from a person who bought a meteorite off
> of e-bay with a provisional
> NWA number, who wants their sample classified. As
> these are whole stones, with
> no material missing, it is clear that someone
> requested a provisional number,
> just for the purpose of being able to sell a ?named
> meteorite?. Some of these
> may not even be meteorites. Additionally,
> scientists aren?t happy about the
> current system because some of the
> dealers/collectors have been known to lie
> about important information (such as when and where
> a sample was collected).
> Also, most public repositories (museums and
> universities) don?t have funds to
> purchase samples, and so cannot compete with dealers
> when a fresh fall occurs.
> It is important to study fresh falls quickly, before
> they?ve experienced
> significant terrestrial weathering. While some
> dealers/collectors are very
> generous about donating substantial amounts of
> material to an institution for
> study, others are very reluctant to give even the
> minimum 20 grams require by
> the Nomenclature Committee. For large-scale
> breccias (think Portales Valley),
> a 20 gram sample gives a very misleading view of the
> entire meteorite. Also,
> as many analytical techniques are destructive; if
> only 20 grams is available to
> scientists (who can?t afford to buy samples), then
> that sample is unlikely to be
> thoroughly studied.
>
> Finally, private collections can be lost when the
> collector dies. I recently
> had someone come in with a fist-sized piece of
> Canyon Diablo that they had
> bought for $3 at a garage sale. It had no
> information ? the people selling the
> meteorite weren?t even aware that it was a
> meteorite. It had obviously come
> from someone?s collection. Also, recently a private
> collector here in Oregon
> died unexpectedly, without leaving a will. He was a
> bachelor with no close
> relatives. One of the dealers from whom he had
> purchased meteorites was aware
> that the man had wanted to leave his collection to a
> museum. Distant relatives
> called me in to help identify samples. The samples
> had gotten jumbled and
> separated from the labels, I suspect when the
> relatives were looking through
> the samples. The collector had a catalog (without
> photographs), and we were
> able to match most of the samples to the
> descriptions in the catalog, although
> a handful of samples remained unidentified. The
> collector?s relatives then
> sold off all of the material. They may or may not
> have included correct
> information with the samples.
>
> So, I suspect that unless ALL dealers become more
> generous with the amount of
> samples they donate (particularly for falls ? to
> local institutions), they will
> find that more and more countries are going to place
> restrictions on the ability
> of dealers/hunters to purchase or collect samples.
> Unfortunately, it only takes
> one or two ?bad apples? to give all dealers a bad
> reputation.
>
> And if you are a collector who values your
> collection and doesn?t want to see
> your material broken or sliced up and sold on e-bay,
> then you should write a
> will, directing what should happen to your
> collection when you die. If you
> intend to leave your material to an institution, you
> should leave a copy of
> your will with someone (curator?) at that
> institution. And you shouldn?t wait.
> While we would all like to die of old age,
> accidents happen.
>
>
> Melinda Hutson, curator
> Cascadia Meteorite Laboratory
> Portland State University
> Department of Geology
> 17 Cramer Hall, 1721 SW Broadway
> Portland OR 97207-0751
> Phone: 503-725-3372
> Fax: 503-725-3025
> ______________________________________________
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>
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>


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Received on Sun 13 Aug 2006 09:32:32 PM PDT