[meteorite-list] Treasure

From: ken newton <magellon_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri Apr 28 12:07:32 2006
Message-ID: <4450EA0E.70000_at_earthlink.net>

>The impact is great: it costs us all our cultural heritage.
Mr. Besedin,
Please define the above statement, specifically HOW is the impact
great? I know it's a challenge but try to provide 'costs' values so I
can understand how you view this. Your definitions and mine are
obviously different. Does this mean that all road building should be
halted unless done by scientists? Construction footers, telephone pole
erection, mineral exploration, wells and pipes laying for
irrigation/sewage, etc should be delayed. And what about all who support
those bad profiteers that destroy the cultural heritage by having cars
and homes and computers (that use the phones lines supporting those
cultural heritage destroying pole holes), etc, etc, etc? Outwardly it
appears to me as if you really wish to reorganized our culture under the
guise of understanding past cultures.

You say "Meteorite hunting is not the problem." I really don't
understand your position on a meteorite LIST so please be specific in
HOW this relates more so to meteorite collection than the soil moving
processes mentioned above and specific reasons WHY we should care.
Perhaps provide specific past examples of "ecological implications"
meteorite hunters have ignored? Sorry, but it really sounds as if your
concerns are more politically motivated than by science. Please remember
this is a meteorite discussion list. If your answers pertain mostly to
fossil/relic hunters or to political issues then you should seek the
proper forum for your concerns. If I have improperly categorized your
statements, I apologize.

And if you really are attempting to change attitudes, thanks for not
talking down to us and calling us names.

A Cultural heritage challenged slobbering looter,
Ken Newton




Thaddeus Besedin wrote:

> I'm referring to the pits that you are digging, not indices of impact
> force that scar the earth, such as craters. I am not calling
> meteorites relics - it is the presentation of meteorite hunting by
> this particular program as tantamount to treasure (cultural "relic" )
> hunting with impunity. This relic hunting is being promoted by your
> show. The impact is great: it costs us all our cultural heritage.
> Meteorite hunting is not the problem. How many times must I repeat
> this? It is the attitude that is the problem. You do realize that no
> matter when the fall happened, Brenham meteorites were either observed
> by humans, a threat to life in the strewn field (with obvious
> ecological implications), or buried beneath sediments possibly
> containing traces of events too small for your slobbering regard.
> EBay: you said it all. You'd sell human remains to the highest
> bidder if it were legal. Notkin <geoking_at_notkin.net> wrote:
>
> Dear Listees:
>
> Greetings comrades.
>
> Just returned late last night from our Brenham/Glorieta documentary
> shoot: sunburned, bruised, scratched, and battered, but what a great
> experience. Our Travel Channel host, the glamorous Becky Worley,
> jumped
> right into the action and was digging holes, riding ATVs, swinging
> metal detectors, and generally working her way through an intense
> meteorite-hunting apprenticeship in 48 hours flat. She's a knockout.
>
> Thanks to Mark and Ruben for posting their photos of our expedition.
> I'll post my own as soon as I can. Mark Bostick and his bro came all
> the way down from Wichita for the dig on Thursday. It was good to see
> some friendly faces and I appreciate the nice web presentation he put
> together.
>
>
> In other news: this Besednice character is a real corker isn't he?
> He's
> gotta be just a fake ID, or a troll right? With a name like that I'm
> putting my money on Jim Strope or Dave Andrews having some fun
> with us.
>
> Thaddeus Besednice posted:
>
> > Oh great - another glorification of looting (relic hunting)!
>
> A relic is generally assumed to be a product of, or an item
> specifically associated with, human culture and history (i.e. an
> ancient religious relic), so it doesn't really work with a meteorite.
> Also, how can you be looting something when its owner (the landowner)
> has expressly asked you to excavate it from his own property?
> Answer me
> that, Mr. Moldavite.
>
>
> > Do Any of the Brenham pits get at least a cursory record of their
> > possible prehistoric components?
>
> They're not pits, silly. The Brenhams are completely buried, way, way
> underground, a bit like your conscience. An "impact pit" is a modest
> surface indentation made by a meteorite which is too small (or
> traveling too slowly) to produce an actual crater. I suggest reading
> Mr. Norton's "Rocks from Space" where you can learn some other
> helpful
> meteorite terms, and then use them at parties.
>
> FYI, Steve meticulously records the depth, orientation, GPS
> coordinates, and other detailed info for every single find. A
> scientific study (in association with a prominent geologist on the
> List) is underway to determine the true age of the fall. I can't
> wait!
> IMO the Brenham fall took place more recently than many of us think.
>
> In addition, valuable and detailed strewnfield data is being
> collected
> with each new find. The area around each excavated Brenham is
> carefully
> checked for meteorite fragments, as well as the flattened, fossilized
> carcass of an ancient Kansas plains camel, big sabre tooth kitty,
> or --
> if we're super lucky -- Thaddeus Besednice himself. Steve is REALLY
> hoping that directly beneath one of the big irons he will discover a
> wafer-thin buffalo mummy. Imagine how much that would go for on eBay!
>
>
> > I'm justifiably and unassailably an enemy of the irresponsible,
> > counterscientific, hobbyist attitudes glorified by certain
> people and
> > uncritically tolerated by others (accomplices).
>
> Good lord that's fabulous. A sentence worthy of Thomas Pynchon! Yes,
> that would be me, one of the accomplices. I know you're just jealous
> you big Moldavite.
>
>
> > No, we don't need degrees to collect lumps of asteroids,
> planets, and
> > comets, but a bit of respect for irreplacable biological taxa and
> > cultural residues would make us more than drooling, avaricious
> > freebooters.
>
> Unfortunately, most of the eminent scientists with degrees are too
> busy
> with classifications, new papers, and important lab work to go
> scurrying around in the mud with us, but we're happy to do our
> part. I
> do agree with you though -- think of all the "irreplacable biological
> taxa" that resides at the bottom of a hole in a field in a Kansas
> farm!
> If you want to come out and study it, I'll be happy to hand you a
> shovel.
>
> Anyway, just to contradict you one more time, Steve has had
> recognized
> academics up to Brenham to inspect the work-in-progress, notably the
> excellent Dr. Art Ehlmann of the Oscar Monnig Gallery, TCU.
>
> I know this guy Besednice is just a gag by someone, but replied
> for the
> sake of some List members who might think this clown is a real person.
>
> Good joke though : )
>
>
> Yours in freebooting asteroids,
>
> Geoff Notkin
> (Arnold accomplice and part-time henchman)
>
> www.aerolite.org
> Rockin' Tucson
>
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Received on Thu 27 Apr 2006 11:58:06 AM PDT