[meteorite-list] Capot Rey...photos please of the H5

From: Meteoriteshow <meteoriteshow_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri Sep 23 07:13:15 2005
Message-ID: <00ee01c5c02f$c6255b20$0400a8c0_at_IBM>

Hi Martin and All,

I agree wit you Martin and just wish to add one other example to yours: our Acfer 329 that has been classified as a L4/5 from the
specimen that we supplied to the MNHNP for classification. This is a 30kg chondrite, with one main fragment of 15kg plus other
fragments. We cut some slices from some fragments with no surprise compared to what we had at the beginning. And then we started
cutting another fragment maybe two years later and discovered some beautiful shock veins in this last fragment... As shock stage had
not been mentioned in the MNHNP classification we have no clue about it, but I guess that it would not have been high with the
specimen supplied at first. And when you see the other ones...! They can VISUALLY be compared to our Acfer 334 that is classified
with shock stage S5-6... Once again, vi-sual-ly.
Later on, the choice of the words used to call them (IMB etc...) is difficult and as far as I'm concerned I talk about shock veins
when I want to describe our Acfer 329 slices that display those paths of shock. But they are not showing the same as Capot Rey, that
definitely looks more shocked on slices sold by Carsten on ebay! There are no melt pockets in Acfer 329 but only shock veins.
I can send some pictures of Acfer 329 slices that display shock veins to Listees that are interested (there is none currently shown
on our website, sorry, a mistake that I will try to correct asap). Just ask me privately.

Kind regards

Frederic Beroud
http://www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Altmann" <Altmann_at_Meteorite-Martin.de>
To: "Jeff Kuyken" <info_at_meteorites.com.au>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Capot Rey...photos please of the H5


> Hi Jeff,
>
> as far as I understand the term "IMB" does not name a completely and
> uniformly molten rock.
> Else, I would have have problems to understand the "B", if there aren't any
> fragments of the precessor material to be found in the melt (and I think, we
> easily will sled into the PAC corner).
> Different classification of the same find as IMB or H5 f.i. are easily
> explainable. Take for instance Dho 010, there you have broad streams of melt
> flowing around chondritic fragments in different stages of melting, some
> even unaltered, therefore one can determinate the type (have to look Dho 010
> if I remember right is H6).
> And furthermore take our good old Gao! There you have stones, which are
> simply more or less normal chondrites, other stones show large melt pockets
> and again others are more or less totally molten and have to be regarded, if
> one doesn't know about the other average Gao specimens, with no doubt as
> IMBs. Take a look on David Weir's page, there you have such an example.
> Thus with Gao we have the whole spectra - H5, H5 with melt, IMB.
> It's always the same, it depends what for a stone the classificators get,
> what for sections they do have.
> Remember the NWA 1109, they caught parts with slightly below 10% Dio, thus
> it's an EUC-P, another cut, another stone from the same find with >10%,
> voila they had to call it a How.
> Take also good old Zag. There exist pieces with only a single lithology, if
> those would have been handed in for typing, Zag wouldn't have bin classified
> as regolith breccia. Take the NWA-Rumurutis, some are nice brecciae,
> result - obviously paired ones (lalalaa I know, I'm not a scientist, but if
> it's looking the same in every detail and the stuff is so rare) got
> different classifications. Some R4s are paired with R3-6...
> Ooops, all I'm writing here, is about the optical, physical appearance of
> the stones, not chemically.
>
> Now, I would guess, with Capot Rey, they took either a piece without melt
> (if exists) or determinated the type from a not molten fragment in the melt.
>
> But look at the phantastic pieces of Carsten, those dark fat rivers of melt
> around the grey round jigsaw pieces. Hence if Dho 010, who looks the same,
> but is only much more weathered, was called a IMB, I dare to say in my
> Lieschen-Mueller-opinion
> (Lieschen Mueller is the German sister of John Doe), Capot Rey is an IMB
> too.
>
> Of course again we would need a concretion of terms from a qualified mouth.
> With type-7 vs. PAC vs. IMB we learned, that it has to do with the isotopes
> and in general nobody is sure about the criteria,
> now we have IMB vs. MR (melt rock) vs H or L with IMB vs H or L with visible
> huge parts of melt, but not assigned,
> or we have to resign ourself to being more types of rock out there in space
> as we have terms for them :-)
>
> Buckleboo!
> Martin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Kuyken" <info_at_meteorites.com.au>
> To: "drtanuki" <drtanuki_at_yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Capot Rey...photos please of the H5
>
>
> > I would be a bit cautious about calling something an IMB unless it has
> been
> > formally classified as such. My understanding is that this meteorite was
> > classified as H5 but after further cutting later was found to be highly
> > shocked. Let's not forget that IMB is basically a scientific term
> referring
> > to the fact that the pressure reached about 75-90 GPa and is rated as S6+.
> > It's original shock rating was only S2. A new piece should probably be
> > submitted for re-classification so a proper determination can be made.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: drtanuki
> > To: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 9:47 AM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Capot Rey...photos please of the H5
> >
> >
> > Dear List,
> > Does anyone have more information about Capot Rey?
> > It is listed as an H5 in the MetBul and has no mention
> > of it being an IMB. I would appreciate photos if
> > someone has them of their samples that were not sold
> > as an IMB. Thank you in advance.
> > Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo
> >
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Received on Fri 23 Sep 2005 07:13:05 AM PDT