[meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was: Pallasite

From: Michael Farmer <meteoritehunter_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat Nov 26 11:09:23 2005
Message-ID: <005b01c5f2a3$c508da90$0200a8c0_at_S0031628003>

Oh, you noticed that the Fukang slice was not even polished as well? I find
it pure ooozing greed that the owner does not even bother to take the extra
time and expense to completely finish his work and properly polish the
meteorite.
Mike Farmer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Altmann" <Altmann_at_Meteorite-Martin.de>
To: <MexicoDoug_at_aol.com>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was: Pallasite


> Hi Doug,
>
> I see it more pragmatically.
> The terms&conditions the seller/buyer knows before.
> Don't know whether they are so different from other auction houses like
> Christie's, Sotheby and all the rest of them.
> Nor do I think, that they are meteorite pimps, maximum meteoritically
> pimply.
> (I guess the seller wrote the description, as I wouldn't expect those
> auctioneers to have a clue about meteorites).
>
> Doug, don't forget, that almost nobody on this planet knows what a
> meteorite
> is, and almost all, who knows it, make no difference between a Tucson Ring
> and a Canyon Diablo, even not mineral collectors or stargazers (from this
> two groups most meteorite collectors were recruited).
>
> And there I have to say, the estimated values for the Nantans is o.k, as I
> suppose this auction house addressea to another audience, than those
> ebay-junkies, who hang 12 hours per day in front of the screen to wait for
> a
> downetched Nantan crystal going for 100/kg.
> The estimated value of the Fukang is more problematic, as this locality
> didn't found its price yet, which will depend on how much material will
> appear on market in future. If the Russians will get it in their fingers,
> one will be able to buy it on ebay in a few months at a
> Brahin-Seymchan-price, if few more careful persons will obtain the main
> masses, we will have to pay a normal pallasite's price.
>
>>From my point of view, as I sell meteorites, I welcome such activities,
> cause it helps to add more popularity to our hobby, creating more
> collectors
> (and buyers).
>>From a collectors point of view it might be different, as we all benefit
> currently from the backlog of material and the fact that there exist only
> a
> few thousands (or less) collectors.
> (Can be a problem - at times melanchollically I remember the years around
> 1990, before there were some exhibitions of baroque celestial charts
> (another hobby of mine) in USA. Suddenly it was tres chic for anyone, who
> was a little bit wealthy to plaster his loft with celestial charts. As
> they
> are very limited the prices skyrocketed in the following years and
> nowadays
> one has to pay ten times more than then.)
>
> Anyway, I can't understand, that one rather carves a beetle out of a
> lunaite, then to sell the stone with an adequate hoop-la via such an
> auction
> house to a suitable group of buyers.
>
> Hey, I think that Fukang slice deserves a better polish to fir better to
> the
> description.
>
> Buckleboo!
> Martin
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MexicoDoug_at_aol.com>
> To: <Altmann_at_Meteorite-Martin.de>; <steve_arnol60120@yahoo.com>
> Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was:
> Pallasite
>
>
> Nice Find Martin, it was nice to actually see this new material that is
> thrilling to some listmemembers:), though there is no real guaranty of
> authenticity offered.
>
> In case someone out there really is motivated to participate, I just
> would
> like to express my opinion, that these are more meteorite pimps: Only a
> bunch
> of thieves would appear to do this. I guess they think with a cheap
> British
> (or Stagecoach) sounding name like "Bonham & Butterfield" they add some
> mysterious value. There are five more meteorites sharing the company of
> the sample
> of the pallasite from the Fukang locality, did you notice? All the
> others
> are Nantan Irons!!
>
> Let's look at the economics of a sale of lot 8079, the 2.02 kg Nantan:
>
> If it sells for the low price of the range, $400:
>
> $470 collected from buyer included "premium"
> $70 retained as buyer's premium by auctioneer
> $100 commission retained by auctioneer from Seller
> $150 catalog picture kept by auctioneer
> $30 online uploaded image kept by auctioneer
> $6 insurance fee collected by auctioneer
>
> NET amount remitted to Seller: $114
> TOTAL Kept by Auctioneer: $356
>
> Sounds like purchases on eBay through PayPal just might offer better
> protection, as evidenced by the Auctioneers statement of responsibility
> and
> authenticity:
>
> Lots are sold on an *as is* basis but the actual condition of a Lot may
> not
> be as good as indicated by its outward appearance. In particular parts
> may
> have been replaced or renewed and Lots may not be authentic or of
> satisfactory
> quality.
>
> Oh, that's nice, and let me guess, even if it is later shown that the
> meteorite wasn't authentic, the auctioneer will do it's best to hang on
> to
> its $356
> or a good part of it as it is so costly to hold an auction when use a
> fancy
> auctioneer name. Uh huh...into the thieves category they go, for
> irresponsible. Of course the Seller is responsible in their book not them
> they'll have
> nothing to do with responsibility, and for that the seller gets 24.2% of
> the
> sale procedes for a meteorite of questionable pedigree.
>
> How shameful such abuse still takes place, but I guess "Ye pays ya money
> and
> ye takes ya chances." I'd invite anyone to to correct anything I've
> inadvertantly overlooked.
>
> Saludos, Doug
> PS - and that misleading comment that Esquel somehow isn't as nice
> because
> it has been sawed into hundreds of pieces. I am scratching my head on
> still
> on that note, as it appears that the lot offered itself is not exactly
> the
> main mass either...at less than a kilogram, but they had to add: "The
> specimen's
> very large size" as a descriptor
>
>
>
> En un mensaje con fecha 11/26/2005 6:31:08 AM Mexico Standard Time,
> Altmann_at_Meteorite-Martin.de escribe:
> You can buy your slice at a Bonham's auction in L.A. on 4th of Dec.
>
> "
> Help
> Flash version Copyright ? 2002-2005 Bonhams 1793 Ltd., Images and Text
> All
> Rights Reserved
> Lot No: 8084
>
> Fukang Meteorite Slice - An Important New Discovery
> Stoney Iron - Pallasite
> Fukang, China
> An extraordinary discovery made in 2003, the Fukang Meteorite is arguably
> the world's preeminent pallasitic meteorite. The present cut and polished
> slice is the first specimen of this distinguished meteorite to be made
> available to the public. Displaying much larger olivine crystals than
> have
> ever been seen before, the superlative Fukang meteorite is in outstanding
> condition; its nickel-iron matrix exhibits abundant high quality olivine
> crystals. The quality of some of the crystals is so fine that they may be
> classified as peridot crystals, a gem form of olivine.
>
> A brief history of Pallasites:
> In 1749 on a remote wooded ridge of Mount Emir, Siberia, the first
> pallasite
> meteorite was discovered. The native Tartars believed the iron was a holy
> relic that had fallen from the heavens. In 1772, Peter Simon Pallas, the
> German scientist for whom this category of meteorites was named, visited
> the
> site and removed samples of the 700-kilogram mass. Although it would be
> several years before scientists would accept the theory that stones and
> irons fall from the heavens, the Pallas iron was eventually recognized as
> a
> meteorite and identified as such. The large mass is now on display at the
> Academy of Sciences Mineral Museum.
>
> Over the next 161 years, other much smaller pallasites were discovered
> and
> identified. Then, in 1937 at Huckitta, Australia, a pallasite weighing
> 1,411
> kilograms was found; unfortunately, nearly the entire specimen had
> weathered
> into iron shale, leaving only 450 kilograms of intact specimen which is
> currently in Adelaide, Australia.
>
> Fourteen years later, in 1951, a 1,500-kilogram pallasite was found in
> Esquel, Argentina. A private individual maintained ownership until 1992
> when
> it was sold and was subsequently sawed into hundreds of small pieces. The
> largest intact piece of the specimen is now less than 200 kilograms.
>
> Not since 1951 has as large and significant a pallasite been found as the
> Fukang Meteorite, discovered outside a tiny village in Northwestern China
> in
> 2003. The specimen's very large size, superb quality and enormous,
> high-quality crystals make it a find of historic importance.
> Measuring 8 1/2 x 8 1/2 x 1/8in. Weighing 910 grams.
>
> Estimate: $18,000 to 22,000
>
> http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&sc
> reen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=2651951&iSaleNo=13327&sServer=http://imag
> es
> 2.bonhams.com/&sPath=2005-10/10/7153424-48-1.jpg
>
> Regards.
> Martin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!" <steve_arnol60120_at_yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:14 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] FUKANG METEORITE
>
>
>> Hello again list.I got an email from a list member stating that the main
>> mass of the fukang meteorite is at u of arizona.Man that piece looks
>> like
>> over 900 kilo's.Does anyone have a close approximate of the TKW?I can
>> hardly wait to get a piece.
>>
>>
>> steve arnold, chicago
>>
>> Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120
>>
>>
>> Illinois Meteorites,Ltd!
>>
>>
>> website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> Saludos, Doug
>
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Received on Sat 26 Nov 2005 11:08:56 AM PST