[meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info

From: Tom Knudson <peregrineflier_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue May 17 14:51:25 2005
Message-ID: <011901c55b11$6aac3710$2d107918_at_Michelle>

Dave
"Maybe Tom could use the tip of reading more books and papers and asking
a few less questions that are not really up to speed with the issues."

  Not up to speed with the issues, Robert Woolard just posted yesterday (may
17th) new info about PV and a possible new classification! How is it my
talking about the classification of PV is not up to speed? "Read more books
and papers", can you direct me to one published book that talks about
Portales Valley's possible new classification, H7, metallic-melt breccia
(primitive achondrite)",? I don't even know if the new paper has been
published yet, if not, how am I, or anyone supposed to read it?
Thanks, Tom
peregrineflier <><

----- Original Message -----
From: "d freeman" <dfreeman_at_fascination.com>
To: "Bob Holmes" <bobholmes_at_cox.net>
Cc: "Tom Knudson" <peregrineflier_at_npgcable.com>; "Robert Woolard"
<meteoritefinder_at_yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info


> Maybe Tom could use the tip of reading more books and papers and asking
> a few less questions that are not really up to speed with the issues.
> Dave
>
> Bob Holmes wrote:
>
> > Tom,
> >
> > The word 'lazy' came from your post, not mine. Perhaps there was an
> > error in the initial classification, but obviously many people
> > realized the need for clarification and were quite diligent in their
> > pursuits. This is an ongoing process. I for one, thank Jeff Grossman
> > for standing up and explaining what the process was. You complain
> > about all the negativity on the list, but here you are again (the
> > Pope, Barringer, remember?), espousing negativity.
> >
> > What is it you want from 'them'?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Knudson"
> > <peregrineflier_at_npgcable.com>
> > To: "Bob Holmes" <bobholmes_at_cox.net>; "Robert Woolard"
> > <meteoritefinder_at_yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 10:50 AM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info
> >
> >
> >> Hi Bob,
> >>
> >> " I don't believe you were ever chided for questioning the need for
> >> reclassifying, I believe the problem stemmed from your derogatory
> >> remarks
> >> about those working (or not working, lazy, as you assert), on PV. AND
as
> >> you
> >> can see now, work was being done, they were not sitting on their hands,
> >> doing nothing. Further, it seems to me as though they had a new type of
> >> class and wanted to be sure of their results."
> >>
> >>
> >>> >> now have the proposed reclassification of PV as an "
> >>> >> H7, metallic-melt breccia (primitive achondrite)",
> >>> >> with the case made for a new meteorite type
> >>> >> designation of "Portalesite" due to this metallic-melt
> >>> >> breccia characteristic.
> >>
> >>
> >> If this proposed reclassification happens, what does this say about the
> >> original classification? Was it wrong? Was it a rush to judgment?
> >> Did they
> >> not want to take the time out to study it enough to properly classify
it
> >> (lazy)? How could it go from an H6 ordinary chondrite to a
> >> "Portalesite,
> >> H7, metallic-melt breccia (primitive achondrite)" Did it experience a
> >> metamorphous between studies.
> >> I did not call anyone "working" on it lazy, I asked why the original
> >> group
> >> did not make up a new classification for this unique meteorite.
> >> Apparently
> >> Alex Ruzicka, Marvin Killgore, David Mittlefehldt, and Marc Fries among
> >> others I am sure, could see this meteorite needed to be studied
> >> further and
> >> thought it needed to be something more than an H6 ordinary chondrite.
> >> If this reclassification does happen, I think my question back in
> >> March of
> >> 2004 is a fair and valid question, why was PV called a H6 ordinary
> >> chondrite?
> >> Astronomers are always being reprimanded for telling us a killer
> >> asteroid
> >> is going to strike the Earth next year. They come out and say it
> >> before they
> >> get all the information and when they finally do get all the
> >> information,
> >> they look bad for jumping the gun. A scientist came out and said PV
> >> was an
> >> H6 ordinary chondrite. Now it looks like all the info might be in and
> >> someone had jumped the gun. Do these two branches of science have to
> >> play by
> >> the same rules, find out all the info before you talk?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks, Tom
> >> peregrineflier <><
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Bob Holmes" <bobholmes_at_cox.net>
> >> To: "Tom Knudson" <peregrineflier_at_npgcable.com>; "Robert Woolard"
> >> <meteoritefinder_at_yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:52 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info
> >>
> >>
> >>> Tom ,
> >>>
> >>> I don't believe you were ever chided for questioning the need for
> >>> reclassifying, I believe the problem stemmed from your derogatory
> >>> remarks
> >>> about those working (or not working, lazy, as you assert), on PV.
> >>> AND as
> >>
> >> you
> >>
> >>> can see now, work was being done, they were not sitting on their
hands,
> >>> doing nothing. Further, it seems to me as though they had a new type
of
> >>> class and wanted to be sure of their results.
> >>>
> >>> That PV was not an ordinary H6 is not an opinion that was yours
> >>> alone, and
> >>> you were part of a vast majority. Instead of patting yourself on the
> >>> back,
> >>> why don't you apologize for your derisive insinuations about those who
> >>
> >> have
> >>
> >>> put much time and effort into the study of PV.
> >>>
> >>> Bob Holmes
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Tom Knudson" <peregrineflier_at_npgcable.com>
> >>> To: "Robert Woolard" <meteoritefinder_at_yahoo.com>;
> >>> <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:11 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Hi List, back in March of 2004, I made a lot of enemies on the
> >>> list for
> >>> > asking;
> >>> >
> >>> > " I have to ask, was Portales Valley classified as a H6 ordinary
> >>> > chondrite because "they" were to lazy to make up a new
> >>> classification?
> >>
> >> It
> >>
> >>> > would seem to me that this unique meteorite deserves it's own group
> >>> > instead
> >>> > of being shoved into an already existing group.
> >>> > I do not feel like we have found every type of meteorite yet, are
> >>> "they
> >>> > going do this with all of them, just sticking them in existing
> >>
> >> categories,
> >>
> >>> > or will they make a new one if need be?"
> >>> >
> >>> > I was called everything from an idiot to a stupid mother $#*&^# by
a
> >>
> >> lot
> >>
> >>> > of
> >>> > people on the list for questioning the classification. I was put
> >>> in my
> >>> > place, never question the scientists, if they said it was a H6
> >>> ordinary
> >>> > chondrite, then it was!
> >>> >
> >>> > Just thought it was interesting . : )
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks, Tom
> >>> > peregrineflier <><
> >>> >
> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> > From: "Robert Woolard" <meteoritefinder_at_yahoo.com>
> >>> > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> >>> > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:21 PM
> >>> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >> Hello List,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Well for years now, I know a lot of us were puzzled
> >>> >> by the classification of Portales Valley as an " H6
> >>> >> ordinary chondrite". (See my article in the May 2001
> >>> >> issue of Meteorite, titled " Portales Valley - A Not
> >>> >> So Ordinary (Ordinary Chondrite??)! " In the recent
> >>> >> past, the classification was modified a bit, being
> >>> >> changed to read as an " H6 Impact Melt Breccia ".
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I am excited to be able to say that there is a
> >>> >> distinct chance the true uniqueness of PV may soon be
> >>> >> reflected in a possible new moniker for this
> >>> >> intriguing meteorite. David Weir was kind enough to
> >>> >> make me aware of a new and comprehensive paper by Alex
> >>> >> Ruzicka, Marvin Killgore, David Mittlefehldt, and Marc
> >>> >> Fries in the current MAPS. In this detailed work, we
> >>> >> now have the proposed reclassification of PV as an "
> >>> >> H7, metallic-melt breccia (primitive achondrite)",
> >>> >> with the case made for a new meteorite type
> >>> >> designation of "Portalesite" due to this metallic-melt
> >>> >> breccia characteristic.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> You can read David's updated description of PV on
> >>> >> his excellent website here:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> http://www.meteoritestudies.com
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Many thanks to David for news of this exciting
> >>> >> paper, and to the authors of the paper as well.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Sincerely,
> >>> >> Robert Woolard
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> __________________________________
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Received on Tue 17 May 2005 02:51:17 PM PDT