[meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info

From: d freeman <dfreeman_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue May 17 14:34:15 2005
Message-ID: <428A3914.40706_at_fascination.com>

Maybe Tom could use the tip of reading more books and papers and asking
a few less questions that are not really up to speed with the issues.
Dave

Bob Holmes wrote:

> Tom,
>
> The word 'lazy' came from your post, not mine. Perhaps there was an
> error in the initial classification, but obviously many people
> realized the need for clarification and were quite diligent in their
> pursuits. This is an ongoing process. I for one, thank Jeff Grossman
> for standing up and explaining what the process was. You complain
> about all the negativity on the list, but here you are again (the
> Pope, Barringer, remember?), espousing negativity.
>
> What is it you want from 'them'?
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Knudson"
> <peregrineflier_at_npgcable.com>
> To: "Bob Holmes" <bobholmes_at_cox.net>; "Robert Woolard"
> <meteoritefinder_at_yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 10:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info
>
>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> " I don't believe you were ever chided for questioning the need for
>> reclassifying, I believe the problem stemmed from your derogatory
>> remarks
>> about those working (or not working, lazy, as you assert), on PV. AND as
>> you
>> can see now, work was being done, they were not sitting on their hands,
>> doing nothing. Further, it seems to me as though they had a new type of
>> class and wanted to be sure of their results."
>>
>>
>>> >> now have the proposed reclassification of PV as an "
>>> >> H7, metallic-melt breccia (primitive achondrite)",
>>> >> with the case made for a new meteorite type
>>> >> designation of "Portalesite" due to this metallic-melt
>>> >> breccia characteristic.
>>
>>
>> If this proposed reclassification happens, what does this say about the
>> original classification? Was it wrong? Was it a rush to judgment?
>> Did they
>> not want to take the time out to study it enough to properly classify it
>> (lazy)? How could it go from an H6 ordinary chondrite to a
>> "Portalesite,
>> H7, metallic-melt breccia (primitive achondrite)" Did it experience a
>> metamorphous between studies.
>> I did not call anyone "working" on it lazy, I asked why the original
>> group
>> did not make up a new classification for this unique meteorite.
>> Apparently
>> Alex Ruzicka, Marvin Killgore, David Mittlefehldt, and Marc Fries among
>> others I am sure, could see this meteorite needed to be studied
>> further and
>> thought it needed to be something more than an H6 ordinary chondrite.
>> If this reclassification does happen, I think my question back in
>> March of
>> 2004 is a fair and valid question, why was PV called a H6 ordinary
>> chondrite?
>> Astronomers are always being reprimanded for telling us a killer
>> asteroid
>> is going to strike the Earth next year. They come out and say it
>> before they
>> get all the information and when they finally do get all the
>> information,
>> they look bad for jumping the gun. A scientist came out and said PV
>> was an
>> H6 ordinary chondrite. Now it looks like all the info might be in and
>> someone had jumped the gun. Do these two branches of science have to
>> play by
>> the same rules, find out all the info before you talk?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Tom
>> peregrineflier <><
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bob Holmes" <bobholmes_at_cox.net>
>> To: "Tom Knudson" <peregrineflier_at_npgcable.com>; "Robert Woolard"
>> <meteoritefinder_at_yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info
>>
>>
>>> Tom ,
>>>
>>> I don't believe you were ever chided for questioning the need for
>>> reclassifying, I believe the problem stemmed from your derogatory
>>> remarks
>>> about those working (or not working, lazy, as you assert), on PV.
>>> AND as
>>
>> you
>>
>>> can see now, work was being done, they were not sitting on their hands,
>>> doing nothing. Further, it seems to me as though they had a new type of
>>> class and wanted to be sure of their results.
>>>
>>> That PV was not an ordinary H6 is not an opinion that was yours
>>> alone, and
>>> you were part of a vast majority. Instead of patting yourself on the
>>> back,
>>> why don't you apologize for your derisive insinuations about those who
>>
>> have
>>
>>> put much time and effort into the study of PV.
>>>
>>> Bob Holmes
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Tom Knudson" <peregrineflier_at_npgcable.com>
>>> To: "Robert Woolard" <meteoritefinder_at_yahoo.com>;
>>> <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:11 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info
>>>
>>>
>>> > Hi List, back in March of 2004, I made a lot of enemies on the
>>> list for
>>> > asking;
>>> >
>>> > " I have to ask, was Portales Valley classified as a H6 ordinary
>>> > chondrite because "they" were to lazy to make up a new
>>> classification?
>>
>> It
>>
>>> > would seem to me that this unique meteorite deserves it's own group
>>> > instead
>>> > of being shoved into an already existing group.
>>> > I do not feel like we have found every type of meteorite yet, are
>>> "they
>>> > going do this with all of them, just sticking them in existing
>>
>> categories,
>>
>>> > or will they make a new one if need be?"
>>> >
>>> > I was called everything from an idiot to a stupid mother $#*&^# by a
>>
>> lot
>>
>>> > of
>>> > people on the list for questioning the classification. I was put
>>> in my
>>> > place, never question the scientists, if they said it was a H6
>>> ordinary
>>> > chondrite, then it was!
>>> >
>>> > Just thought it was interesting . : )
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thanks, Tom
>>> > peregrineflier <><
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Robert Woolard" <meteoritefinder_at_yahoo.com>
>>> > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
>>> > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:21 PM
>>> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Hello List,
>>> >>
>>> >> Well for years now, I know a lot of us were puzzled
>>> >> by the classification of Portales Valley as an " H6
>>> >> ordinary chondrite". (See my article in the May 2001
>>> >> issue of Meteorite, titled " Portales Valley - A Not
>>> >> So Ordinary (Ordinary Chondrite??)! " In the recent
>>> >> past, the classification was modified a bit, being
>>> >> changed to read as an " H6 Impact Melt Breccia ".
>>> >>
>>> >> I am excited to be able to say that there is a
>>> >> distinct chance the true uniqueness of PV may soon be
>>> >> reflected in a possible new moniker for this
>>> >> intriguing meteorite. David Weir was kind enough to
>>> >> make me aware of a new and comprehensive paper by Alex
>>> >> Ruzicka, Marvin Killgore, David Mittlefehldt, and Marc
>>> >> Fries in the current MAPS. In this detailed work, we
>>> >> now have the proposed reclassification of PV as an "
>>> >> H7, metallic-melt breccia (primitive achondrite)",
>>> >> with the case made for a new meteorite type
>>> >> designation of "Portalesite" due to this metallic-melt
>>> >> breccia characteristic.
>>> >>
>>> >> You can read David's updated description of PV on
>>> >> his excellent website here:
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.meteoritestudies.com
>>> >>
>>> >> Many thanks to David for news of this exciting
>>> >> paper, and to the authors of the paper as well.
>>> >>
>>> >> Sincerely,
>>> >> Robert Woolard
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
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>>
>>
>
>
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Received on Tue 17 May 2005 02:33:56 PM PDT