[meteorite-list] Kansas Legal Debate: Creation, Evolution andIntelligent Design

From: Mark Miconi <mam602_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri May 13 23:29:30 2005
Message-ID: <008c01c55835$1f8a5e80$d7e16a44_at_ph.cox.net>

I think that there is a bit of truth to all of it, Creation, Evolution and
Intellegent intervention/design.

Your examples of "Fallen arches, acid reflux, cancer, failing eyesight" are
not "part" of the design. They are the result of using a given design beyond
the operational envelope of the particular design. Cancer, I believe is a
product of our 5000 years of cesspool environmental practices, add the
industrial revolution and the millions of tons of toxins that are in the
lifecycles of this biosphere and cancers are inevitable even in the best
design.
Most people I know with foot problems are either out of shape or overweight,
acid reflux is simply another example of operation of the design outside its
capabilities. Unless you are getting naturally grown food from OFF of this
planet then I do not care if you are a herbivore, carnivore or and omnivore
you are ingesting filth, toxins and decay of the past 3 centuries at least.
Add to that the processed crap that most people gorge themselves on and it
is no wonder that our stomachs work at all.

No you will have to make a better arguement against intelligent design than
that.

I personally like to call it intelligent "Intervention", perhaps God/the
intellegence did not stick around to perfect the design. Instead this
God/the intelligence , found something already in the process...maybe from
evolution. Seeing that it could use some "seasoning", like all good chefs
added some spice to the life already beginning on this planet. Maybe that is
where creation comes in.

Who knows, maybe we will find out someday that our double helix DNA is
responsible for all of it....more than half of all the material that makes
up our DNA does nothing but insure the replication of itself, then we share
almost 95% of the stuff with all other living things here. Sounds pretty
suspicous to me....something that devotes more than half of its structure
and operation to its own self preservation and is intimately linked to
everything on this planet...if that is not intellgence I do not know what is
and that leaves out the fact that 4 simple chemicals is all this stuff is
made of and all you need to is combine the stuff correctly and it can make
anything out of itself....(cue twilight zone music).

Too many "missing links" in evolution, too much "take it on faith" in
religion and way too many
wonderful things that we can not explain, that I will not hold up to chance
happening.

I like to believe, no matter what faith, with or without religon, that all
of us will know the wonders of us, our world and the universe someday and it
will all be revealed when we leave this existance...until then we get to
debate.

And that leads me to communication, another part of the design....think for
a moment how lousy life would be if we had not developed our communication
to level beyond common mammals.

You did make a good point though when you said "that the ways of God are
myterious and not within mortal understanding?"

What fun would it be and what would anyone have to look forward to if we had
all the answers. Our suffering here, our experiences here, are all
preparation for what is ahead. Till then we get to wonder and talk about it!

Thanks for listening....

Mark M.
Phoenix AZ



----- Original Message -----
From: Treiman, Allan <treiman_at_lpi.usra.edu>
To: <Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 6:25 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Kansas Legal Debate: Creation,Evolution
andIntelligent Design


Hi, all --

   Here's my two cents on Intellegent Design. It adopts the worst
aspects of science and religion, and ends up being bad science,
bad theology, and bad engineering.

  Intellegent Design is bad science, because it makes no
testable predictions about how the universe does or did operate.

  Intellegent Design is bad theology, because it assumes that
humans are clever enough to understand God's design of the universe
and his intentions. Don't our preachers always tell us that the
ways of God are myterious and not within mortal understanding?

  Intellegent Design is bad engineering, because so many parts of
the design work poorly. What is the design purpose of acne? Fallen
arches? Acid reflux? Cancer? Failing eyesight? Etc, etc. These are not
intellegent designs, they are sloppy, foolish, stupid designs.

   FWIW.

  Allan



Allan H. Treiman
Senior Staff Scientist
Lunar and Planetary Institute
3600 Bay Area Boulevard
Houston, TX 77058-1113
   281-486-2117
   281-486-2162 (FAX)


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces_at_meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces_at_meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Southern
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:02 AM
To: Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Kansas Legal Debate: Creation,Evolution
andIntelligent Design


interesting point of view Phil...

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Morgan" <pkmorgan_at_ctcweb.net>
To: <cynapse_at_charter.net>; "drtanuki" <drtanuki@yahoo.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Kansas Legal Debate: Creation,Evolution and
Intelligent Design


> Hey Darren,
> That was kind of mean-spirited.
>
> Let's see, if I believe in a God, I'm an inbred nitwit, but if I believe
> that I was rather created by a bacteria that came from somewhere (?) and
> hitched a ride on a meteorite (just to make this a meteorite-related
> topic) I'm quite intelligent? Or was the former only if I believe in a
> young earth?
>
> Until we find a world that was created by bacteria+chance and those
> bacteria learned to write and recorded the whole process for us it's all
> faith - either way.
>
> Interesting topic and if anyone has any proof either way lets discuss that
> rather than making generalities.
>
> Regards to all
> Phil Morgan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse_at_charter.net>
> To: "drtanuki" <drtanuki_at_yahoo.com>
> Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 5:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Kansas Legal Debate: Creation,Evolution and
> Intelligent Design
>
>
> On Thu, 12 May 2005 15:54:26 -0700 (PDT), drtanuki <drtanuki_at_yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Dear List,
>> There is now a debate in the Kansas Courts (USA)
>>about what should be taught in schools, Creationism,
>>Evolution or Intelligent Design. Intelligent Design
>>is a new paradigm that states that there was an
>>Intelligence behind the design of the Universe and
>>Creation of Life. What are the views of members on
>>this List?
>
> Intelligent Design is just creationism in an attempted scientific disguise
> so that they can get
> their foot back in the door of the science classrooms. Don't be fooled by
> their pretending to be
> rational-- I'll be willing to be you that AT LEAST 95% of the "Intelligent
> Design" proponents
> pushing for Intelligent Design to be taught are Young Earth Creationists,
> who insist on an age for
> the Earth and Universe at below 10,000 years and a Noachian Deluge.
>
> In other words, inbred nitwits.
>
> http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/barbara_forrest/wedge.html
> http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/features/2000/pigliucci1.html
> http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/vic_stenger/stealth.pdf
> http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/design.html
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>
>
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Received on Fri 13 May 2005 11:29:23 PM PDT