[meteorite-list] Michael's meteorite market trends

From: joseph_town_at_att.net <joseph_town_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Jun 9 23:53:02 2005
Message-ID: <061020050352.77.42A90E97000EFFC20000004D21602810600299019BA1089F0A9C0106_at_att.net>

My God/god,

You two understand each other. It's frightening.

Bill


 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Michael L Blood <mlblood_at_cox.net>
> OK,
> I think, after reading all those words, the objection is to
> the implication I made that one should not purchase or trade
> with a dealer that is not "established" - and you are right, that
> is irrational.... and I apologize for the unintended implication.
> However, I was actually quoting a phrase oft heard in the
> past wherein "established" and "reputable" were always linked
> & I did not mean to imply the former.
> In fact, in the article I state:
> " It is one thing to buy from a "new" dealer who
> is advertising in METEORITE MAGAZINE and even
> though not around a long time, has established
> as fact an exemplary treatment of customers,
> standing by everything s/he sells with a life time
> guarantee of authenticity, accepting any and all
> returns should a customer be dissatisfied in any
> way, etc."
> --
> So, to rephrase: it is asinine to deal with people who's
> reputations for dishonest dealing proceed them.(period -
> this is the main thrust of the article)
> As an add on, I believe one should also proceed with
> caution when dealing with someone yet to establish their
> reliability. I state this more as reasonable behavior than
> behavior which I always practice, myself. I tend to take
> people at their word until they prove themselves unworthy
> of trust.
> At any rate, sorry to all if there was any confusion in
> my intended statements.
> Best wishes, Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> on 6/9/05 3:27 PM, MexicoDoug_at_aol.com at MexicoDoug@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Michael B. wrote:
> >> This sort of ignores the fact that I was specifically referring to the
> >> practice of dealing with known criminals and rip off artists.
> >
> > Martin A. must have seen Star Wars dubbed in German if at all (Martin -
> > Michael signed his article in Yodish. That is where it started). Dave
> > Freeman
> > vanquished Yoda by hallucinating about "good herb", now Yoda has left...
> >
> > Michael, I repeat Yoda's carefully addressed thoughts on your theme of
> > purchasing from SCAM ARTISTS which you clearly expressed in the article:
> > "Foolish
> > then is it, morals they have not. The Jedi who heeds not the counsel of the
> > Force, to the dark side he listens, yes...."
> >
> > Yoda is definitely not ignoring you and hopes that, "disagreement alone you
> > seek not, for disagreement then find you shall...hmmmm...." In translating
> > his Yodish, he says he agrees with you that once the dark side is detected,
> > one is a fool to deal again with a particular individual....
> >
> > The objection is that in making your general SCAMMER ATTACK, with which we
> > agree completely, we noticed clearly a negative energy and a mixing of the
> > dark side with respect to the "newbe", unknowns, even though you may have not
> > intended this at all. Yoda cautioned me always to give a "newbe" the benefit
> > of the doubt and thus create positive energy and a greater network within the
> > "hobby" and for growth. Yoda favors the stimulation and grooming of good
> > dealers right from birth to become good, contributing citizens of the
> > Republic,
> > and is troubled by several statements in your article, including but not
> > limited to what I will refer to as "Michael's Mantra":
> >
> > Michael's Mantra:
> > *It wasn't long ago that collectors frequently uttered the admonishment,
> > "buy only from established dealers with flawless reputations." It isn't as
> > though there are not enough of us to go around. Yet, now that it clearly
> > matters,
> > it seems I haven't heard that phrase in recent timesŠ.*
> >
> > I have problems with your logic - but not at all with you, who I respect as
> > generally a positive, contributiong member to our community. This logic to
> > me is much worse than the type that resulted in the recent Iraqi War. The
> > fact that the mantra may be a suspicion in ONE or SOME case(s) doesn't mean
> > it
> > is true in ALL cases, and to act this way is not without it's negative side
> > effects. So it is potentially a very damaging mantra. And of course the
> > market recognizes this, though not in the orderly fashion we can easily pin
> > down...
> >
> > A dealer who is not established, obviously has no reputation, and if
> > anything, it is up to the established dealers with flawless reputations to be
> > stewards of trust. If that trust is violated, your article rings true. If
> > not, it
> > is a mantra that becomes for a bizarre barrier to entry for many nice
> > meteorite collectors out there and creates a stoogy community concentrated
> > among
> > fewer. My view is the more the merrier, and that is why I was so quick to
> > respond to Martin A's exciting post of more European friends to make. In
> > Martin
> > H's post he also makes a few very good points, and I would go further and say
> > rather than attempt to protect a "newbe" which might been seen by the
> > greenhorn as condescending, I would encourage him to be conservative at first
> > but
> > most definitely purposely depart from mantra and make new trades with new
> > friends from new places. The super dealers have nothing to worry about. We
> > do
> > business with them not so much as for their reputation, as for our personal
> > experiences with them. That is why Martin H. and Serge V. are gentle giants
> > among their peers for me and one or two BIG guys are of more questionable
> > repute...No substitute for a calculated approach to crack open the market.
> >
> > Regarding dealers and collectors, to me the line between "us" and "them"
> > doesn't exist. We are all dealers and collectors and trade, sales and
> > purchases
> > are necessary for any hardworking collector to build a great collection,
> > necessitating our bending over backwards to create positive energy. There is
> > nothing wrong with making a livelihood out of it as well, of course, but such
> > superdealers shan't overshadow the thousands more who are working diligently
> > for enough feedback to have a nice reputation, too.
> >
> > So when we discover and sufficiently confirm dishonesty, ostracism is the
> > modus operandi, but before that encouragement should be the rule. We have
> > seen
> > enough superdealer wars and heard what has been said to know that no person
> > walks on water, which clouds with the profit motive taking front row. We
> > need to take small, calculated-informed risks to create a more interesting
> > and
> > robust trade with each "newbe" that is attracted. Otherwise we could become
> > stuck with many one time sales rusting away in drawers across the world where
> > interests have moved on...
> >
> > You article for me had one very cogent point, but some spare baggage from
> > the past, that you seem to be shedding quite conservatively...If that baggage
> > it
> > would be a pleasure to serve on Captain Blood's discrete scammer lynch
> > team...
> > Saludos, Doug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > on 6/9/05 9:32 AM, MexicoDoug_at_aol.com at MexicoDoug@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> These new dealers, if fear us they do, help us they will not. If hate us
> >> they do, hunt us they will. Think Yoda, good is it, yes....Encouragement
> >> from
> >> us, this buying of meteorites from new dealers it is.... A positive
> > network
> >> it makes, hmmmm....Positive Force to the hobby it brings....yes, expand
> > does
> >> the force as our universe it will. Agree with Master Blood Yoda not,
> > unless
> >> seen the Dark Force once, other Jedi masters and children do, hmmmmm.
> >> Foolish then is it, morals they have not. The Jedi who heeds not the
> > counsel
> >> of
> >> the Force, to the dark side he listens, yes...
> >> Yoda I am.
> >
> >
> > --
> > "You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are."
> > -Herb Cohen
> > --
> > If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
> >
> > ______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
> --
> "You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are."
> -Herb Cohen
> --
> If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
>
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Received on Thu 09 Jun 2005 11:52:58 PM PDT