[meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g

From: Michael L Blood <mlblood_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed Nov 24 14:26:23 2004
Message-ID: <BDCA20E2.13C40%mlblood_at_cox.net>

Hi Dean,
        GREAT post - thanks for saying the obvious! I didn't
feel it was my place to step into a NWA debate to state
the obvious, myself, as, due to my health, I have NEVER
gone there.
        I noted with great interest the LACK of response to
your post! Well, now doesn't that speak volumes?!
        It is refreshing to hear just the plane TRUTH stated
free of the quacking of the ducks.
        Best wishes, Michael

        


on 11/24/04 7:29 AM, dean bessey at deanbessey_at_yahoo.com wrote:

> Ok, I am sick of this. Want some meteorite trade
> secrets and the inside scoup on some scams? If so dont
> fall asleap while reading my manuscript here.
> Adam keeps saying NWA869 is unofficial which is
> correct but its been classified. Alan rubin classified
> it twice as L4 and L5, matteo got an 3.8-6 and another
> french dealer got 3.8. Farmer has it classified.
> Obviously Paired NWA904 has been classified. There is
> no meteorite that is like NWA869. Its a very
> brecciated meteorite. Look at this one for example.
> http://www.meteoriteshop.com/ebay/nwa869two.jpg
> There is another university actually interested in it
> and is doing a big research project on many kilos. It
> is easy to recogonize NWA869 (Or whatever you want to
> call it - NWA869 has taken on the most commonly
> accepted name I guess because I have been so vocal
> with promoting hundreds of kilos of it). For the
> record it will not appear in the bulletin this year
> (So yes, will remain unofficial for another year so
> the stupid unofficial arguement can continue to be
> made) because it is such a varied meteorite that has
> created so much discussion that Michael Zolonsky asked
> to get a sample to look at himself. I plan on sending
> him a good brecciated sample showing 3 different
> meteorites but I havent been able to contact him for a
> couple weeks. Scientiest sare very busy nowadays with
> institutions so underfunded.
> One can take the fact that scientists dont have time
> to go through the expensive motions to pair chondrites
> and then say "It is wrong to make pairing judgements"
> knowing full well that it wont get done but that dont
> disprove the fact that they are the same meteorite.
> NWA869 will most likely be the biggest strewnfield
> from the desert and one of the largest chondrite
> strewnfields in the world. It great that the biggest
> one had to be such a nice and interesting and varied
> meteorite. You can wish them different because that
> would make them worth more but fact is if you paid $1
> a gram for one of the paired stones that several
> dealers are selling as low TKW you have been ripped
> off - and since every dealer can recogonize NWA869 the
> dealer knew that he ripped you off. Plain and simple.
> Wishing wont make it something else anymore than
> wishing wont make BCCs fake mnoon rock real. And using
> the lame arguement that no scientists has
> scientifically paired every single one of 75,000
> stones just dont wash. We all know they are the same.
>
> I will go further because I am sick of this. What is
> happening with NWA869 and NWA1109 is nothing short of
> fraud. And there are 3 or 4 dealers involved. NWA869
> is a great meteorite and one can easily take one of
> the more brecciated ones (With the black inclusions or
> melt which makes it more interesting) and call it
> something else. At least one dealer is selling it as
> his own find. Take a particularly nice one and get it
> classified and sell it for $1 a gram and argue like
> the fake moon rock people that they are real. Threaten
> lawsuits if necessary to scare people.
> NWA1109 is more interesting. We were all once buying
> it for upwards of $20 a gram in morocco once and
> everybody thought it was an howardite. (Although I
> have a kilo piece now that I would part with foor
> $7500) The diogenite levels has to be 10% to make it a
> howardite. Every dealer knows this so whats happening
> with 3 or 4 dealers (Including some in europe so I am
> not singling one dealer out here - or even two
> dealers) is to find a piece with more than 10%
> diogenite material and get that classified and then
> the whole stone is a howardite worth $75 a gram
> instead of $15. You only need a half square inch of
> material with 10% diopgenite material to get the
> entire stone officially in the met bulletin as a
> howardite. NWA1109 is a great meteorite and a whole
> host of dealers are taking obviously paired stones and
> finding a piece with 10% diogenite material and then
> getting the howardite classification. Paired NWA1644
> (Classified by MIT as a polymict eucrite because the
> sample that I gave them only had 6% diogenite
> material) had a customer send his piece to a
> university in germany (He wanted official verification
> that I was selling a real meteorite as he was very
> sceptical that I was selling a meteorite) and came
> back howardite because that sample that he gav eto the
> university had the 10% requirement. So NWA1644 has
> been properly classified as both but it appears in teh
> bulletin as a eucrite.
> There are lots of inclusions and weird things in
> NWA1109 and you could also probably get really exotic
> classifications if one tried to get really fancy with
> inclusions - but I dont see large numbers of dealers
> doing that and the scam is generally to get howardite
> classifications. NWA1109 could well be an howardite.
> It is borderline but officially a eucrite.
> Remember something important here. The nomads work in
> groups and
> when the try and sell to people like me, farmer and
> everybody else they basically usually pull a scam.
> They split up the fall and offer me 50 grams, farmer
> 50 grams, the hupes 50 grams and the european dealers
> 50 grams each saying that this is all there is. Once
> you buy then 50 more grams appear. This is one of the
> things people buying in morocco has to put up with. It
> happens to everybody. We just all live with it. The
> scam may have worked in the beginning but it has
> backfired on the moroccans because us buyers now
> assume that there is 25 kilos of everything and wont
> pay as much as we would if there really was only 400
> grams of a stone. We assume that there is 20 kilos of
> everything. There is a TKW honestly discount put on
> buying this stuff in morocco nowadays.
> The nomads know that if there is 3000 kilos (I was
> first told that the 79 kilos of NWA869 that I bought
> was the entire fall) that it wont be worth much. It
> would be very unusual that one dealer would have very
> rare finds and no other dealer have any of it. Rare
> types of meteorites dont fall in 90 gram strewnfields.
> One or two might. There are several dealers including
> a couple european dealers who regularly go to the main
> shows that does this and nobody else has paired NWAs
> to theirs.
> Think about that when you buy a rare type of
> meteorite.
> And if you bought something as an howardite or
> something else that looks identical to NWA1109 or some
> really nice L chondrite looking a lot like NWA869 with
> black melt spots think for a second why such a thing
> exists and wonder if the dealer has taken a few
> lessons from the moroccan TKW scam school. Being lied
> to with knowlingly misrepresented material might be
> criminal but being a stupid consumer means that nobody
> should feel sorry for you when you get ripped off.
> Sincerely
> Your now really froze in canadian
> DEAN
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Wed 24 Nov 2004 02:28:34 PM PST