[meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business

From: McomeMeteorite Meteorite <meteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed Nov 17 14:41:10 2004
Message-ID: <BAY2-F4BaYFkuutSgcO00008015_at_hotmail.com>

Ah, Mike Farmer its a real dealer of meteorites, I am in battle with Mike
ok, but is not sure a person type you sale fake lunar material to others and
say Dr.Koratev is a stupid person not know the lunar meteorites.



>From: "S. Ray DeRusse" <srd_at_ispwest.com>
>To: meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net,
>mlblood_at_cox.net,meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business
>Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:37:39 -0600
>
>I want to comment to on the following statements made by Farmer;
>
>How do you collectors feel? You are being had, being sold rocks with
>cards and the expectation that it is what they say it is, and now we see
>that isn't the case! Your stones may be worth far less than you realize
>if pairings are being made by looking at the outside of a stone!
>
>I think that you have to look into each individual case. On the whole, I
>cannot believe that bona-fide experienced dealers are selling material
>without minimal testing and just piggybacking their authenticity on others'
>work. This is called plagiarism in certain settings and is a serious
>offense. However notwithstanding the economic factors of dealership, the
>scientific record is ill served by not doing at least minimal testing
>because it tends to muddy the record where a person buys a sample that may
>be lost from the record forever. Unclassifed samples and untested samples
>may be good candidates for a museum where the owner does not have the
>resources or inclination to devote to testing and contributing to the
>record.
>
>To Bill Mason who said the following about Meteorite Magazine.
>
>"Just a suggestion to consider; after all it is our most important
>meteorite news source.
>
>Get Real!
>
>S. Ray DeRusse and Bill Cutler
>www.bccmeteorites.com
>
>
>Mr. Farmer wrote;
>
>Michael Farmer wrote:
>
>>Again Michael, first off he is selling publicly, so why should it not be
>>discussed publicly? The damage has been done to me in public, so I see no
>>need to try and hush this up.
>>I know that Edwin and you are good friends, and that you depend on his
>>stuff for sale and for your auctions, so I would suggest to you that when
>>you have stuff listed for your upcoming Tucson auction, that you make a
>>disclaimer that tells people who submit that they better know what they
>>are submitting and should have the rights to use the classification.
>>I fear that a scene will ensue if I come into your auction and find
>>meteorites being falsely sold there using my numbers.
>>I have spoken privately today to several people and this is a problem
>>which is about to explode.
>>Freeloaders are too lazy or cheap to do their own work and are mooching
>>off of those dealers and collectors who take the time and spend their
>>hard-earned money to make all of the analyses. I will not stand by quietly
>>while people are mooching off of my work, and selling an item using false
>>pairing claims.
>>This is extremely serious business.
>>I have more money that you know invested in my work and my stones, and I
>>will not allow people to try and lump their stuff under my numbers.
>>
>>How do you collectors feel? You are being had, being sold rocks with cards
>>and the expectation that it is what they say it is, and now we see that
>>isn't the case! Your stones may be worth far less than you realize if
>>pairings are being made by looking at the outside of a stone!
>>I think it is time to demand paperwork from your dealers, classification
>>data on stones, showing that it is what they say, or is fully classified
>>as a pairing.
>>That is the only way we can stop this scam, is by forcing people to show
>>documentation to prove it is what they claim it is.
>>Michael Farmer
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael L Blood" <mlblood_at_cox.net>
>>To: "Mike Farmer & Melody" <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>; "Meteorite List"
>><meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 4:38 PM
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business
>>
>>
>>>Hi Mike,
>>> The issue I made is NOT who is right or wrong.
>>> If you were to post a very similar announcement,
>>>saying you had addressed this issue with ET and was told to take a
>>>long walk off a short pier and he didn't care what you thought
>>>about what he was doing and you think collectors should be
>>>aware this is going on - THAT WOULD BE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT
>>>situation.
>>> Instead, you FIRST publicly chastise him. Whatever
>>>is going on - that is a poor start at ANY attempt for remedy,
>>>regardless of the circumstances involved. You don't know
>>>what is take on the situation is - you haven't even addressed
>>>the issue with him. MAYBE there is a good explanation - MAYBE
>>>there isn't. MAYBE he looked at it one way and will change his
>>>perspective once he hears what you have to say - MAYBE he
>>>won't.... we don't know, because YOU HAVEN'T TALKED TO HIM
>>>ABOUT IT.
>>> There are a good many of us who will be far more
>>>interested in ANY issue you have with any other dealer IF you
>>>report civil attempts to resolve the issue on your part met
>>>with a lack of cooperation on their part.
>>> THEN I start wondering what is going on. Then I start
>>>listening to the content. However, when it is a one way mud
>>>throwing event, all I see is mud throwing - the content is
>>>unimportant to me if the process isn't clean.
>>> Other than that, thanks for a relatively civil response on
>>>your part.
>>> Sincerely, Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>on 11/16/04 3:10 PM, Michael Farmer at meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>Michael, you seem to leave out the obvious, he is using numbers for
>>>>meteorites sitting in my safe, I paid to have classified and worked.
>>>>Michael, can you explain that, or does it not matter since he is your
>>>>friend.
>>>>This is very simple Michael, no genius needed here.
>>>>I will make it simple though
>>>>Guy A owns an item.
>>>>Guy B starts selling the same item which is not possible since it is
>>>>sitting
>>>>guy A's safe.
>>>>Who is the liar here? Guy A who paid to have the stone classified or Guy
>>>>B
>>>>who did not?
>>>>So calm down Blood, and look at things rationally.
>>>>Michael Farmer
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Michael L Blood" <mlblood_at_cox.net>
>>>>To: "Mike Farmer & Melody" <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>; "Meteorite
>>>>List"
>>>><meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 3:57 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yes,
>>>>> I, indeed, do have an opinion:
>>>>> It is one thing to lamblast Matteo, who has dealt dirty with
>>>>>numerous members of this list or even to sling mud back & forth
>>>>>between yourself and Adam - it is quite another to go off on
>>>>>a person of E.T.'s dignity, venerable tenure and hard earned
>>>>>reputation for honesty!
>>>>> Anyone on this list who has dealt with ET will tell you he
>>>>>bends over backwards for even the most obnoxious customer
>>>>>(I have SEEN him do this, myself), NEVER rips people off and
>>>>>has been dealing meteorites as long as anyone (and I mean
>>>>>ANYONE) in the business.
>>>>> You even ADMIT you have not spoken to him about this,
>>>>>so WHAT IN THE HELL are you doing posting it to the list!?
>>>>> Get a grip.
>>>>> If you somehow lack contact information, contact me and I
>>>>>will be happy to supply you with his phone number and email
>>>>>address.
>>>>> If you can't manage to act like a gentleman, at least pretend
>>>>>to have a modicum of decency and good business sense!
>>>>> Sincerely, Michael Blood
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>on 11/16/04 1:14 PM, Michael Farmer at meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyone out there got any opinions on this?
>>>>>>Here is another example of false name given to unclassified meteorite.
>>>>>>http://www.polandmet.com/_nwa1906.htm
>>>>>>This is POLANDMET, who has a page selling NWA 1906, a Rumuruti.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now, here is my page, of NWA 1906, the only stone classified and given
>>>>>>this
>>>>>>number:
>>>>>>http://www.meteoriteguy.com/nwa1906.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The problem, that is my meteorite, one stone, no pairings ever
>>>>>>announced.
>>>>>>Take a look at the two pages, the meteorites are not even similar in
>>>>>>any
>>>>>>way.
>>>>>>Mine is NWA 1906, since I had it classified, Polandmet's does not even
>>>>>>come
>>>>>>close to mine. It doesn't look the same, it has much larger
>>>>>>chondrules,
>>>>>>multicolored, and is just totally different. Not to mention that there
>>>>>>are
>>>>>>clearly two different meteorites on that same page. Note the slices at
>>>>>>top,
>>>>>>very nice clear multicolored chondrules, then the slices are the
>>>>>>bottom,
>>>>>>smaller chondrules, more weathered, clearly brecciated.
>>>>>>These meteorites are totally different.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I am publicly demanding from Polandmet to answer this.
>>>>>>What makes you think that you can sell a meteorite under the number
>>>>>>that
>>>>>>my
>>>>>>stone received? What makes you think they are paired? Why are you
>>>>>>doing
>>>>>>this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Edwin Thompson is the one who is using a whole host of my numbers, I
>>>>>>have
>>>>>>not spoken with him yet, but there is no justification for it other
>>>>>>than
>>>>>>trying to pawn off unclassified meteorites as names pieces.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This has the potential to collapse the entire meteorite market.
>>>>>>We are only as good as our name, and I have worked very hard to do
>>>>>>things
>>>>>>right. I would NEVER sell someone a meteorite that is not what it is
>>>>>>claimed
>>>>>>to be.
>>>>>>But this is what these dealers are doing, making visual pairings to
>>>>>>keep
>>>>>>from having to do their own work.
>>>>>>Buyer beware, it seems that the only way to get official material is
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>buy
>>>>>>from the dealer who made the official classification.
>>>>>>Michael Farmer
>>>>>>Awaiting a response from Polandmet and Edwin Thompson.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.meteoriteguy.com/nwa1906.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>______________________________________________
>>>>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>______________________________________________
>>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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Received on Wed 17 Nov 2004 02:40:07 PM PST