[meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business

From: MarkF <mafer_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue Nov 16 21:27:10 2004
Message-ID: <00bb01c4cc4c$e8bd08e0$db08e104_at_MAF>

Hi Mike and List

This brings very good questions of authenticity.
As a minor collector (meaning I only have a small collection and I'm new to
this having been doing so a couple of years now), I do have to wonder about
many of the stones I've aquired over the last 2-3 yrs. I've never doubted
before what I bought except for once when I got a SA which refuses to etch
(although this might just be an effect of remelting upon impact). I would
hope the dealers whom I've bought from will consider this and reassure me
that they are on the up and up and can vouch for what they sell with some
form of proof. I do resell small pieces so that others can get what I've
gotten, but now I see that I have no word other than what is presented to me
and I sure don't have the equipment to even analyze these small fragments
although I can examine thin sections on larger pieces which only tells me
that I have a meteorite really and would make me cut a usually small sample
and make it smaller.
I would hope the world of meteorite dealers would be up front and open with
what they present. Now, I can't speak for the sellers in North Africa
because they only know that they have a product to sell and once they learn
A sells for more than B, they will do what they've done for centuries and
say B is A. This has been the way of life for the peoples of the Med for
thousands of years. Makes no difference the product. So, I would prefer the
major dealers to do the buying and classifying from the desert sellers and
the leftovers, those common (looking) meteorites from North Africa, can then
still be had for a common price which the sellers in N. Africa will
establish and then the bartering begins for that price which will make both
parties happy. Thats how a couple dealers do this I'm sure and they pass
that on to us and clearly state they are unclassified and the implication is
that they are most likely from one of the big strewn fields. Makes for great
larger display pieces of complete individuals at prices I might even be able
to afford one day!

This has been an enlightening thread and one which I hope brings us all some
benefit.

Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Farmer" <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
To: "Michael Fowler" <mqfowler_at_mac.com>;
<meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Cc: "Michael Fowler" <mqfowler_at_mac.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business


> Mark, man that is the best written post I have seen in a while.
> My composition skills are more along the lines of President Bush, below
> par.
>
> Anyway, we all face a serious danger here, you look at eBay now and there
> are thousands of meteorite auctions on. Know you seller, and know your
> material, I suggest everyone new to this business, read everything they
> can get their hands on and look all over the internet. Knowledge is power.
>
> All of our collections could be damaged by this sort of thing. Zag looks
> like Kendrapara, Allende looks like Vigarano, Saint Severin is
> indistinguishable from Ensisheim, all are hundreds if not thousands of $$$
> different in per gram value.
> Trust is all we have, lose it and you lose confidence in the hobby and
> many collectors who get burned will be gone at that first bad experience.
> Michael Farmer
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Fowler" <mqfowler_at_mac.com>
> To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Cc: "Michael Fowler" <mqfowler_at_mac.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 6:06 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business
>
>
>> I'm with Mike Farmer on this.
>>
>> First, to lay out the issues without any name calling is NOT mudslinging.
>>
>> Second, think of the following analogy. I rob a bank and get caught red
>> handed. Someone contacts me privately and offers me a chance to return
>> the money and my identity will never be revealed to the public. Do you
>> think the public's interest is served?
>>
>> If Mr. Thompson has a good explanation, I'm sure he will make it known
>> and each list member can make his own evaluation.
>>
>> Meantime I think this is a very serious business. I've invested many
>> thousands of dollars in my meteorite collection. How am I to know if
>> what I paid for is what I'm told it is? It is based on trust. If
>> various dealers are claiming to be selling material that they don't have
>> and maybe others are relying on "pairings" based on looks or an opinion
>> where does it end? This could be just the tip of the iceberg.
>>
>> For example, I bought a piece of Lueders, a Silicated Iron. To me it
>> looks a lot like a piece of silicated campo, What's the difference,
>> they're both IAB Irons? Well, one is worth 5-10 times as much as the
>> other. Once trust in the sellers of meteorites breaks down, it would call
>> into question the value of all the rare material in our collections!!
>>
>> From what I've heard so far, I'm not likely to ever take my chances on a
>> dealer who does not adhere to nomcom rules.
>> And equally unlikely to purchase from persons who ridicule attempts to
>> keep the selling of meteorites from descending into an
>> bottomless pit of unverifiable pairings and unauthorized number
>> piggybacking.
>>
>> My 2 cents.
>>
>> Mike Fowler
>> Chicago
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Michael Blood wrote:
>>
>> The issue I made is NOT who is right or wrong.
>> If you were to post a very similar announcement,
>> saying you had addressed this issue with ET and was told to take a
>> long walk off a short pier and he didn't care what you thought
>> about what he was doing and you think collectors should be
>> aware this is going on - THAT WOULD BE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT
>> situation.
>> Instead, you FIRST publicly chastise him. Whatever
>> is going on - that is a poor start at ANY attempt for remedy,
>> regardless of the circumstances involved. You don't know
>> what is take on the situation is - you haven't even addressed
>> the issue with him. MAYBE there is a good explanation - MAYBE
>> there isn't. MAYBE he looked at it one way and will change his
>> perspective once he hears what you have to say - MAYBE he
>> won't.... we don't know, because YOU HAVEN'T TALKED TO HIM
>> ABOUT IT.
>> There are a good many of us who will be far more
>> interested in ANY issue you have with any other dealer IF you
>> report civil attempts to resolve the issue on your part met
>> with a lack of cooperation on their part.
>> THEN I start wondering what is going on. Then I start
>> listening to the content. However, when it is a one way mud
>> throwing event, all I see is mud throwing - the content is
>> unimportant to me if the process isn't clean.
>> Other than that, thanks for a relatively civil response on
>> your part.
>> Sincerely, Michael
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------
>>
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>
>
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Received on Tue 16 Nov 2004 09:26:53 PM PST