AW: AW: [meteorite-list] RE: Ad ebay meteorites

From: Bernhard Rems <rendelius_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Nov 4 18:11:47 2004
Message-ID: <005a01c4c2c2$ba6c24f0$bc4a2fd5_at_rendhome>

This was an interesting discussion. Please don't push it in a way that
makes it become dirty.

Thanks,
Bernhard

PS: I think that Aziz Habibi had some valid points there, regarding the
relationship between european and US dealers on the one side and
Moroccan middlemen on the other side.


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces_at_meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces_at_meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg
Hupe
Gesendet: Freitag, 05. November 2004 00:53
An: aziz habibi
Cc: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: AW: [meteorite-list] RE: Ad ebay meteorites

Habibi,

What is with all this yack, yack, yack...??


We all know you made plenty good money from the sale of the shergottite
Adam
and I made a deal with you, but NO, even after agreeing to the price,
you
got greedy and sent us a switch and bait terrestrial stone and then sold
it
to Nelson. Be realistic yourself, do not cry to us about these "poor"
nomads. Dollar for dollar, the nomad and Moroccan dealers make more per
investment Dirham (Dollar) than we do in U.S. or Europe. We're tired of
your
wining and game playing.

Do you consider the great amount of money it takes AFTER the sale in
Morocco
to bring these to market? What about the money we spend on terrestrial
material in search on planetary? I would say, if one is into this very
deep
as we are, than even with planetary finds, it is pretty much break even!

You continually try to sell to collectors, either through your self or
others, material that is not even classified. Are you a legitimate
scientist? NO!, you are not. If you wish to sell to collectors, do your
customers a favor, be real and quit the B.S., no one plays your game and
we
are all tired. I am personally tired of your interference here and in
Morocco.

Best wishes,

Greg


----- Original Message -----
From: "aziz habibi" <aziz_habibi_at_hotmail.com>
To: <koblitz_at_microfab.de>; <Altmann@Meteorite-Martin.de>;
<rendelius_at_rpgdot.com>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: AW: [meteorite-list] RE: Ad ebay meteorites


> hello list hello all
> let's be realistic and see the problem of nwa meteorite how it look
like.
> in nwa there is nomades looking for meteorite and then middle man
buying
> from them,and then there is usa and europe dealers selling the the
world
> market.
> when the nomade find a stone he sell it for good price to middle man
if
> the nomade do not konwwhat it is, if not it's expenssive.
> than the middle man send the sample of the stone for one of his friend

> dealer who give it to labs,
> because it's rare that a morrocan middle man send directly to labs.
> than there is two suposition : the stone is intersting or its comon
> meteorite,
> first case== what the dealer in usa do if the stone is planetary or
very
> rare
> is he going to tel the nwa dealer its good stone i willl give you
good
> price
> or he is going to say , no its normal stone i willl give you 10$ a gr.
> the nwa dealer do not know and have an equation segond degree
> can he believe the usa and europe delears or not
> 1)if hebeleive them ,theypartner and share the profit this happend
rarely
> and i say extremly rare that a usa or europe dealer share the profit
from
> a planetray or rare meteorite ; in nwa i do not know any rich dealer
they
> are mostly poor and working for the wind.
> than who win from nwa meteorite , the usa dealers .
> 2)segond solution for the equation is that the middle man do not
belive
> the dealers who give the stone to a lab, than he give or sell to this
> dealers a small part of the rare stone and keep the rest untill he
see it
> on the market and know his value.than he say i find more , so easy ,
> than the usa dealers are in trouble because they do not want to pay
the
> stone with real value
> so the stone goes to other way to other dealers and market like
munich
> and tucson.
> than the probelm of pairing come out; the usa dealer have to protect
there
> market.
> but still they are paired stone and the same stone find by the same
> nomade.
> to resolve this problem it's easy give the nomade the real price and
buy
> all.
> if a usa dealer do not want to pay an expenssive price for morrocan
or
> fair price,
> and one question very clair wich morrocan partner of usa dealer is
rich or
> have ever made a good money from meteorite, what did the nomade work
for ,
> to make the the dealers of usa rich and themself stay poor,
> if any dealer want to have the monopole of nwa meteorite he have to be

> fair and pay the morrocan good price.
> i think that over 15 planetary meteorite come out from morroco no
one
> from the morrocan nomade or middle man make any good money from them
and
> the usa dealers has been selling planetary meteorite for thousends of
> dollars, you will tell me they have work for , yes but didn't the
nomade
> and middle man work for it too, why you do not share and a legale
partage
> of the profit and be fair and than there is no problem.
> is someone contest what i say , than please tell me who in nwa have
ever
> get a panetary meteorite
> and get any good money from it,
> there is many example that i do not want to share here.
> every one in this life is working with optimisme to find and
oportinity
> and to make some good money
> to have decent and normal life, or you think that they do not deserve
it.
> it's easy to come to the market and try to make the monopole and a
> staretegie to defend it but if you read economic history from
> mercantilist to the latest theories of john nach that boulversed
> the economies of the world , you will understand that the market is
> working with a chimiotactisme postive and negative,and than there is
offer
> and demand,wich its easy to equibrate the market.
> even bill gate know that he can'thavethe monopole of the market this
why
> he is doing horizontal and vertical corelation with other companys.
> this what i think abaout realistic part of the probelm of pairing.
> but we can see the problem in other angle,
> if a nomade sold a good stone to usa dealer and find more and this
hapend
> many time and always
> what he do for the stone if the first dealers do not want to buy it
he
> trew it a way or try to find better dealer and better price,
> at the end an nwa number is scientific number that we are going to
> leavefor our children one day in 2150 they will say oh this is
nwa656002
> and this become like if theysay its H2O or NACL
> or MC2.
> than the scientific numbers are not a legal propriety , you can't own
a
> scientific numbers
> and no one in the scientific doctor can say nwa25036910 is for X or
for Y.
> any one can use pairing but with rules; and the rules are to compare
the
> stone by a scientist.
> than if someone have only 10 gr of martien did he have to pay 500$ to
a
> scientist just to compare them and to do a legal pairing. no i do not
> think that all the dealers buying from ebay 1000 meteorite are going
to
> see dr X to see if the stone is realy paired we have than our
personnal
> aprecaition, if not every single 0.000012 gr sold in ebay or any where
in
> the wolrd have to be seen by a scietisct even if you have the main
mass.
> than the logique of selling a stone even if you are the owner of the
main
> mass you can't sell it without scientist aprobation, than we come back
to
> confiance , is the dealer realy selling nwa225001 or nwa452028 ,this
is
> the problem
> than dear listies buy from who you believes and that it.
> if not even if you belive someone and you want to buy from him a
planetary
> meteorite do not buy it untill you see him cuting it with your eyes ,
> there always two way or more to see problems, to make it personnal and

> this is the bad way of analphabets and uneducated impolit persons
> and the way of pragmatisme and logique and its the real way it
should
> be to resolve problems
> do not make a problem your own affair but see it with a logique.
>
> all the best from nwa
> aziz habibi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: J?rn Koblitz <koblitz_at_microfab.de>
>>To: "Martin Altmann" <Altmann_at_Meteorite-Martin.de>,"Bernhard
\"Rendelius\"
>>Rems" <rendelius_at_rpgdot.com>,<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>>Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] RE: Ad ebay meteorites
>>Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:30:04 +0100
>>
>>Dear Listees,
>>
>>In the decades around 1900 it was fancy to circulate tables showing
the
>>values of meteorites. Henry Ward, for example, prepared such tables
and it
>>is interesting and funny to see what was highly priced and what was
>>bargain in those old times. I remember that Angra dos Reis, Lodran and

>>Chassigny were among the most expensive meteorites. Some of these
tables
>>are in the library and if somebody is interested I can email scanned
>>images.
>>
>>Regarding the ongoing discussion on Dhofar vs. NWA pairings: to me,
the
>>pairing situation with NWA is a bit like it is with some places in
>>Antarctica - hundreds of meteorite pieces were picked up in glacial
>>morains (e.g. Elephant Moraine). I would compare such collections with
the
>>"clothes baskets" of Moroccan dealers filled with all kinds of
meteorite
>>fragments. Meteorites which fell on Antactic ice travelled large
distances
>>within the ice and ended up in a moraine nearby the Transantactic
>>Mountains. The difference to NWA is that Antarctic meteorites are
curated
>>by just a few research institutes that take care about classification
and
>>pairing.
>>
>>Best wishes,
>>
>>J?rn Koblitz / MetBase
>>
>>
>>
>> > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> > Von: Martin Altmann [mailto:Altmann_at_Meteorite-Martin.de]
>> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. November 2004 15:44
>> > An: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems; meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>> > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Ad ebay meteorites
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes, and?
>> >
>> > If they list the prices on their sites - then this are the
>> > prices which I'm
>> > interesting.
>> > If I'll go to an anticariat, there I may also get discounts
>> > on the prices on
>> > the labels.
>> > If you buy a used car, gosh, the seller will think, that
>> > you're not right in
>> > brain, if you won't to try to haggle.
>> > Go to a stamp or coin auctions - there are never paid the
>> > prices given in
>> > the catalogue.
>> >
>> > Such a list is good for orientation. If one has a 100%
superoriented,
>> > crusted specimen, one will tend to ask or to pay higher
>> > prices than the
>> > average, if one has a 3 pounder, one will ask less and so on.
>> > The best clue for that the time I spent in compiling the lists was
not
>> > wasted was, that the trade offers I got or I made, when I was
>> > the little
>> > Martin, even more unknown as now, fitted exactly to the given
>> > average price
>> > from my list and all parnters were content.
>> >
>> > Miau,
>> > says my cat.
>> > Martin
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <rendelius_at_rpgdot.com>
>> > To: "'Martin Altmann'" <Altmann_at_meteorite-martin.de>
>> > Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 3:29 PM
>> > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] RE: Ad ebay meteorites
>> >
>> >
>> > You forgot something, Martin: A lot of these dealers offer
SUBSTANTIAL
>> > rebates if you ask for them :-)
>> >
>> > In so far the prices on the sites tend to be higher than they are.
>> >
>> > _____
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>> >
>> > CEO RPGDot Network
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
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Received on Thu 04 Nov 2004 06:05:01 PM PST