[meteorite-list] thoughts on Shirokovsky /Loaves and fishiness

From: Michael L Blood <mlblood_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri Jul 9 20:34:26 2004
Message-ID: <BD14877B.C6D2%mlblood_at_cox.net>

Hi Paul & all,
        I bought a "very nice" piece of this at the Tucson Show
in 2002 from Eric Olson. That was the show everyone thought
it was the hottest new Pallasite ever.
        Of course, when I contacted him about it, he gave
me a full refund. This is one of the benefits of doing
business with dealers who have worked a lifetime
building a reputation of fairness and honesty. They
would never jeopardize that and respond promptly
and fairly. I am sure Eric must have lost a good deal
of money, but would never pass that loss on to his
customers.
        Here's to Eric and all the honest dealers in the
biz.
        Best wishes, Michael


on 7/7/04 7:51 PM, Paul H at bristolia_at_yahoo.com wrote:

> Marc D. Fries wrote:
>
>> I'm rather intrigued with Shirokovsky.
>
> Yes, I agree, it is an interesting X-File type of
> object. I might track down some metallurgists,
> whom I know, to see what they have to say. Also, my
> Russian wife can translate into and type letters
> in Russian on my Russified Mac, if needed.
>
>> In looking at the pictures, a couple of things
>> jump out - first off, most of the pieces are shaped
>> like loaves of bread, or like ingots.
>
> In terms of being "...then sand-cast the resulting
> melt into fine sand pre-forms roughly pounded out
> to look like meteorites.", they seem to be too
> ingot-like to have been made as deliberate fakes
> formed to look like meteorites. To me, the ingot-like
> forms suggest some sort of industrial by-product,
> not something shaped to deceive. My (naive?)
> impression is that we are dealing with self-delusion
> on a massive scale instead of fraud.
>
> That the olivines are of a type associated with Ni-Cu
> ores and of the approximate age of Ni-Cu ores
> associated such deposits suggests to me that whatever
> created the Shirokovsky material might have something
> to do with the smelting of such ores. The local Ural
> olivines are far too old and not associated with
> Ni-Cu ores from what I can tell and, thus can't be
> their source. If Shirokovsky was made simply as a
> fake,
> the people involved logically wouldn't have ignored
> local olivines,in favor of more distance olivines
> associated with the Ni-Cu ores.
>
> (Also, it doesn't look like it has been underwater
> for 44 years. (Of course the water is cold, but
> still there should be some obvious corrosion.)
>
>> Secondly, the comment that the olivines did not
>> equilibrate with the metal matrix, but rather
>> "cooled quickly in a strongly oxidizing environment"
>> is interesting. An oxidizing environment such as
>> ...air??
>
> This is a devasating argument. Quick cooling
> in an oxidizing environment certainly puts the
> stake in heart, as if it was needed, of the
> meteorite interpretation.
>
> Also, I get the feeling that the promoters of it make
> much of a nonexistent connection between the hole
> in the ice and what was found on the bottom of the
> reservoir. Given that the fall happened in 1956, how
> do they know exactly where to search in 2002 some
> 44 years later? Are there any records of someone
> determining the location of the hole in 1956 with a
> survey before the ice melted?
>
> It would be interesting to find out what sort
> boat and barge traffic uses the Kosva River near
> Shirokovsky. If there is any sort of commercial
> or industrial traffic, there is almost an
> unlimited variety of stuff that could get dumped
> into the reservoir. I suspect the promoters of this
> material as a meteorite likely don't realize that
> all sorts of really weird stuff gets dumped into
> reservoirs.
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul
> Baton Rouge, LA
>
>
>
>
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Received on Fri 09 Jul 2004 08:33:47 PM PDT