AW: [meteorite-list] SaharaMet : Point of view on NWA meteorites

From: Norbert Classen <trifid_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun Dec 5 11:11:50 2004
Message-ID: <NCBBKMGDKLMGIBALJOFCMEPGEKAA.trifid_at_timewarp.de>

Richard and Roland Pelisson, List,

Richard and Roland Pelisson wrote:

> We have put this web page explaining the situation of NWA
> meteorites for a
> good reason :
> http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/data/Sahara/Nwa.html
>
> 1) the situation of terrorism is dramatic in Algeria and there
> is an open link with contraband. See these recent posts of Mike on the
> mailing with the title :"Re: [meteorite-list] news from Algeria" and
> "[meteorite-list] Algeria" :

First, you are quoting Mike out of context - the same you alledgedly
did before the French court. Mike's post doesn't say anything about
"an open link with contraband" - this is just your wild speculation
that you are trying to sell us as a fact. VERY poor taste, and a poor
attempt to safe your skins. You are still lacking ANY hard proof of
a link between NWA meteorites, and terrorsim. Your website insults
nearly everybody involved in meteorites, and meteoritics - so WHY don't
you just TAKE IT OFFLINE?

BTW, you still owe an answer to Dean, Mike, Michael Blood, and so many
more members on this list. Please don't hide behind quotes, and wild
speculations.

> 2) meteorites bought in Morocco are coming from Algeria, Libya and up to
> Egypt for their majority. It's the case of NWA 482 and 2046 of
> Mike for example.

These are just two examples out of thousands of NWA numbers, and NO proof
for a "majority" of these meteorites coming from outside of Morocco. AND,
where is the link to contraband and terrorism. CAN YOU PROOF, that one
single cent of the moneys that were paid for NWA 482, and 2046 went into
the pockets of terrorists? That's the point, Msrs., YOU have to PROOF your
claims.

> 3) the potential for meteorite prospecting in Morocco is very
> limited

Not true. Compare Morocco to Oman, and you will see that you are dealing
with a similar situation, and surface. Now, thousands of meteorites were
recovered from Oman - why should the situation be that different for
Morocco. Ah, and don't tell me that I have no idea of what I'm talking
about - I've been to both countries, and I know the deserts.

> So read our web page, you will see that it contains lots of things that
> dealers have still noticed. But it's sure that for us meteorites
> are also a world
> patrimony which could be protected under the UNESCO laws :
> http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf

So now you're trying to threaten us with UNESCO laws? Do you want to
imply that private meteorite collecting should be generally prohibited?
Now tell me, how many meteorites would have been recovered in any hot
desert of the world if there would be no private meteorite market?
Seriously? Don't hide behind UNESCO laws, and MetSoc publications
(we've discussed this issue on the list, before), just STOP linking
us all with contraband, and terrorism.

> Just for comparison : 20 kg of Martian meteorites have been
> discovered in hot desert by systematic prospectors who share full
> documentation, photos, GPS localization... and only 3 kg have been
> discovered by NWA approach.
> Coordinates are important to find paired specimen, a world
> patrimony is lost.

Nobody doubts that coordinates are important, but they are only part
of the picture. Let's have a close look at the example you provided,
and I will show you how you are misinterpreting and misusing the facts.
You're near to the facts when it comes to the total recovered kilos of
Martian meteorites in both regions, but you don't tell us the entire
truth, and that is that the NWA rush has yielded 3 times more new and
unpaired Martian meteorites than systematic prospecting in other hot
deserts. These are the correct figures (I included the cold deserts
of Antarctica to have some kind of reference point):

Antarctica: - 11 different Martian meteorites
                   - Total weight: 26,247 grams
                   - Only two finds with pairings/several fragments
                   - about 80% without pairings / single finds

Non-NWA desert: - only 4 different Martian meteorites
                   - Total weight: 23,100 grams
                   - Only two finds with pairings/several fragments
                   - 50% without known pairings / single finds

NWA desert finds: - 10 different Martian meteorites + 2 under publication
                   - Total weight: 3,651 grams + ~600 grams (under publ.)
                   - 5 of these 12 finds with pairings/several fragments
                   - about 60% without known pairings / single finds

It's misleading to take just the total weights - if you look at the
actual figures we get an entirely different picture. If you compare
the scientifically most significant parameter, and that is the pairing
issue, you will find that the NWA rush yielded three times more new
SNCs than systematic prospecting in other deserts, and even more new
Martian meteorites than the AnsMet, and NIPR recovery projects together.

BTW, 7 of the 12 NWA Martian meteorites have been originally recovered
by Bruno & Carine and their team - could it be that you are just damn
jealous? Okay, you have ALL reason to be jealous, but that doesn't
justify your NWA contraband and terrorism page, and your misleading
posts. One more time, you tried to FOOL people with your Martian meteorite
example, as has been proven by the facts stated above (I can prove
these in detail and milligram, if you want). How do you call people
who are constantly trying to fool other people?

STILL waiting for you to take your page offline, and for your public
statement regarding the multitude of the questions you avoided to answer.

Regards,
Norbert Classen
Received on Sun 05 Dec 2004 11:15:47 AM PST