[meteorite-list] EBay analysis (preliminary)

From: j.divelbiss_at_att.net <j.divelbiss_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:28:36 2004
Message-ID: <103020030033.4547.6068_at_att.net>

Jamie,

I think your decision to omit names is a good one. Anyone who follows ebay
closely knows who is doing a lot or a little in general terms. It is simple
to search specific buyers and sellers to see how much they have bought or
sold over a period of time. Personally I could care less about those kinds of
things(about individuals). Trends are interesting and your method of
gathering info might enlighten the group as to what is going on over a period
of time...say months. The two weeks that you did is just a brief snapshot in
time that doesn't offer up too much information.

Michael Blood could probably use this kind of trending for his monthly
article. As for individual trends...well that certainly changes with time for
most buyers. Many active individuals from a year or two ago hardly bid at all
these days. Only a few continue to buy at a steady pace, spending a fair
amount of money. Good luck trying to trend me and most others...it will mean
nothing. Selling in bursts also happens for most...with the obvious few who
are steady sellers from week to week.

As for providing headswelling fodder and breaking news for those hungry for
such attention and grand standing...well they are (I mean HE is) more than
capable of letting us know about their offerings and conquests...usually in
triplicate, BOLD LETTERS and profound statements.

So send the trends and leave out the names is my vote.

John
> Listees,
>
> I'm gonna suspend any more preliminary analysis publishing.
> I've already started a discussion with EBay. Meanwhile, I'm
> gonna continue experimenting with the analysis. If/when I
> publish any more data, I'll obfuscate identities as I
> described previously. Probably most of the interesting
> analysis doesn't require identities anyway:
>
> Number of new bidders by week
> Number of new sellers by week
> Total items, dollars sold by week
> Distribution of prices by week
>
> Any debate over those stats?
>
> All of that data is now trivial to obtain (as the raw data
> accumulates). It'll be fun to see the EBay meteorite market
> trends in an objective and comprehensive way. Please stay
> tuned.
>
> This thread has evoled to non-meteoritical topics. Skip
> the rest if you're interested in meteorite stuff only.
>
> Paul,
>
> Very nice discussion.
>
> Yeah, when I said server load was EBay's "primary" concern,
> I meant -- but did not write -- in the context of my specific
> robot. For various reasons, I'd argue that it does not
> consitute a derivate work or otherwise challenges EBay's
> expressed concerns (not even privacy as discussed in their
> text). Here are the numbered items from the EBay paragraph
> you cite:
>
> (i) My stated "primary" concern; #1 on their list as well.
> (ii) There are lots of cases dealing with these terms.
> Is the fact that X bought Y from Z for $N enforceable
> "content"? Elsewhere EBay goes to trouble to position
> itself as a "venue". Interesting. All arguable --
> but not by me now.
> (iii) No interference with the site.
> (iv) No bypass of robot exclusions.
>
> That said, my (experimental) robot is probably in violation of
> EBay's User Agreement simply because the agreement prohibits
> all robots. No need to research it, Mike. Whether the
> agreement and other EBay statements would withstand challenges
> from a system like mine is a different matter -- one I'm not
> interested in pursuing. I'm asking permission.
>
> Aside: EBay's robot prohibition is muddled. They do allow
> for some "automated means" (e.g., auction and bidding tools).
> Also note
>
> http://www.ebay.com/robots.txt
>
> which, incidently, does not restrict the pages I use. Why not?
>
> BTW, my background includes lots of large-scale data integration
> work. Also I have fair amount of experience in intellectual
> property licensing (including user agreements); patent
> prosecution, infringement, and licensing; and other IP-related
> activities. But, as I frequently say in this context, IANAL.
> (I Am Not A Lawyer.) I do hang out with them a fair amount.
> At Christmas, they send me gifts, which I fear they bought with
> my money.
>
> Thanks for the feedback, Paul.
>
> --Jamie
>
> LITIG8NSHARK_at_aol.com wrote:
>
> > Good day Folks,
> >
> > I have been following the thread about the compilation of statistical
> > information regarding the sales/purchases of meteorites on eBay.
> > Personally, I found the compilation both interesting and informative and
> > I have no objection to having been included in the published compilation.
> >
> > That having being said, I'd like to preface the following by stating
> > that while I am by no means an expert in "cyber law", I am an attorney.
> > I must admit that when "robots" were mentioned in a recent post to the
> > list I had to do some research to try and figure out exactly what a
> > robot was and what it did. I don't claim to be a computer
> > programer/analyst either. Now that I have a rough idea what a "robot"
> > is and what it does I'd like to share some of my thoughts regarding the
> > compilation of statistical information from eBay.
> >
> > I accessed eBay's policy regarding the use of robots on it's site. I
> > agree with one writer's proposition that one of the reasons eBay
> > prohibits robots from accessing its site, in some circumstances, is to
> > prevent a drain on its server. However, I can't entirely agree that
> > that is eBay's primary goal. In October 1997, eBay was involved in a
> > serious dispute with Onsale, a competitor, over Onsale's use of a robot
> > program to harvest the email addresses of eBay users. (Note that in 1997
> > eBay made it much easier than it is today to access the email addresses
> > of members.) I suspect that it was subsequent to this dispute that eBay
> > placed in its User Policy the prohibition against use of robots, spiders
> > etc. It would appear that eBay is also interested in protecting itself
> > from what it views as unfair competition.
> >
> > As can seen below in a paste of the pertinent part of eBay's user policy
> > regarding *Access and Interference*, the use of robots is clearly
> > prohibited absent express written permission from eBay. The policy
> > language goes further in requiring that, even _with_ eBay's express
> > written permission to use a robot for the creation of a derivative work
> > (compilation of statistical information) on any other member other than
> > yourself, you are obligated to obtain the express written permission of
> > the "third party," which I interpret to mean the party who's information
> > you are seeking to compile. This, I believe, is intended, at least in
> > part, to provide for some level of privacy for eBay members.
> >
> > From a strict reading of eBay's policy language one could reasonably
> > infer that it is not only the public dissemination of the compilation of
> > statistical information that is being prohibited, absent the required
> > express written permission of eBay and the third party affected, but
> > *also* the private (unpublished) compilation itself. However, I sense
> > that the prohibition of the compilation of statistical information for
> > the /purely private use/ of the compiler might not be enforceable in
> > court and might be attacked as being vague and overbroad given that
> > eBay's software actually provides tools that allow for the compilation
> > of such information. Granted, without the use of a robot program the
> > compilation would be very time consuming, if not entirely impractical.
> >
> > Finally, putting aside any legal implications (as far as eBay is
> > concerned) of compiling statistical information about eBay members, the
> > publication of such information has the potential for what some might
> > consider abuse. As an example, because the sale of items may have tax
> > consequences for a seller in some countries, I can imagine a scenario
> > where one disgruntled member might use, or threaten to use, the compiled
> > information to the detriment of another member.
> >
> > Just a thought.
> >
> > *The preceding has not been intended to provide legal advise regarding
> > the compilation of statistical information from eBay resources. It has
> > simply been my thoughts and personal opinions. Should you have specific
> > questions along this line you should consult with an expert in "cyber law".*
> >
> > Have a great day All.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > **
> > *Access and Interference*.
> > The Site contains robot exclusion headers. Much of the information on
> > the Site is updated on a real time basis and is proprietary or is
> > licensed to eBay by our users or third parties. You agree that you will
> > not use any robot, spider, scraper or other automated means to access
> > the Site for any purpose without our express written permission.
> > Additionally, you agree that you will not: (i) take any action that
> > imposes, or may impose in our sole discretion an unreasonable or
> > disproportionately large load on our infrastructure; (ii) copy,
> > reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute or publicly
> > display any content (except for Your Information) from the Site without
> > the prior expressed written permission of eBay and the appropriate third
> > party, as applicable; (iii) interfere or attempt to interfere with the
> > proper working of the Site or any activities conducted on the Site; or
> > (iv) bypass our robot exclusion headers or other measures we may use to
> > prevent or restrict access to the Site.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Received on Wed 29 Oct 2003 07:33:18 PM PST