Fw: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone

From: Robert Szep <zeprox_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:28:19 2004
Message-ID: <002c01c388c7$2e79a7a0$a638fea9_at_cr709502a>

Hmmm... Judging by the responses to this topic, Meteorites in Limestone,
roundish metallic things found in limestone and other sedimentary rock is
not extremely uncommon but worthy of further investigation. Especially when
found in layers or deposits corresponding with certain known time periods.

Yes, a simple nickel-test would obviously be a good first step to take in
determining what some of our tiny discoveries may or may not be. A test for
the presence of Iridium would be the next logical step but that is not as
easily accomplished.

In anycase, I should point out that the metal nodules I
referred to finding are not concretions. I've seen them and owned them from
up around here, from the East coast, and from various U.S. arid regions.


I stumbled upon the material in question while doing some casual fossil
hunting. Yes, there were a couple of small fossil clams in the out-crop I
was chipping-away-at and no they were not Pyritized...


No other known non-man-made-metal anywhere in any direction for atleast 75
miles.


The area I refer to is also a very similar geologic setting to the area in
which the
meteorites in limestone were found in, in Sweeden.

What I considered to be the real eye-opening statistics regarding the
Sweedish findings was the the number of real, genuine meteorites recovered
from a very low number of cubic feet of limestone-host-rock.

It would have been dilligent of the researchers to mention the number of
meteor-wrongs that turned-up in that same volume of host-rock.

I too do not get excited about finding iron-nodules, meteorites on the other
hand...
different story.


Robert Szep.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles R. Viau" <cviau_at_beld.net>
To: "'Edward Hodges'" <holyfireballs_at_hotmail.com>;
<meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:20 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone


> I found some iron oxide nodules, or 'spheres' in limestone in the
> Caribbean. At a certain layer in coastal cliffs of limestone strata that
> looked different (darker, coarser material with an underlying whitish
> substance, there were iron nodules embedded in the limestone. You could
> see them exposed in the layer with a frequency of 1 or 2 every 10 feet
> or so. I dug them out, along with some of the surrounding material. The
> spheres broke in 2 pieces trying to pry them out, and they are heavy,
> with a crystalline appearance, as if they went through some kind of
> metamorphosis. I do not know the age of the strata, but there are
> Jurassic and Cretaceous outcrops in those areas.
> I have never had them analyzed.
>
> CharlyV.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Edward
> Hodges
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:04 AM
> To: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone
>
> Dear list- I have found a few iron oxide nodules in layers of Cambrien
> age
> shale while digging trilobites in Nevada. I didn't think much of it at
> the
> time. I'll have to dig them up from the garage and do a nickel test.
> It's
> and interesting subject, and there are known meteorites recovered from
> limestone. I'll try to list specific examples, I know I read about it
> recently, but cannot recall where I read it right now.The Hoba meteorite
> was
> discovered in limestone in 1928, uncertain whether it impacted a
> limestone
> strata, or has been there since before it became limestone. The was an
> immense halo surrounding it. Is it possible given it's size that it's
> been
> there for hundreds of million of years? I frequently find nodules of
> one
> sort or another on digs, usually mineralization similar to cave pearls.
> It
> would make sense since the Earths surface is cover by more than 75%
> water.
> I'm sure meteorites landed in coral reefs on a regular basis. Thermal
> vents
> could be another possibility. These iron- oxide nodules are quite
> similar to
> the Canyon Diablo "shale", or the thick "shale" covering a very rusted
> Nantan. If anyone has further information, please post it. - Edward
>
> Edward R. Hodges
> IMCA # 4173
> www.meteoriteonline.com
>
>
>
> >From: "Mark Ferguson" <mafer_at_imagineopals.com>
> >To: "Robert Szep" <zeprox_at_albedo.net>
> >CC: "meteoritelist" <Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone - Example from
> Sweden
> >Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:11:55 -0700
> >
> >Hi Robert
> >Not sure I have close to all the answers, but metal, free metal, in a
> >limestone, can only be from a few select sources. One, the first to
> mind,
> >is
> >vents such as black smokers. But, here we have high temps, a corrosive
> >environment, and no discoloration of the limestone from other vent
> >chemicals. Not a likely source. Second to mind are some very nasty
> bacteria
> >which excrete free metals while digesting rock for nutrient, and are a
> >possible source for gold and silver crystals (least thats some peoples
> >thoughts). Next to mind is the free iron found in basalts, not basalt
> in
> >the
> >limestone, doubtful then that is the source. Iron and nickel, which
> shows a
> >Widmanstätten pattern, cannot be from any of these sources and is not
> known
> >from any terrestrial souce to date. Best guess would be a impactor and
> the
> >metal nuggets are splash ejecta which landed on a reef or in a oolitic
> >environment and got encapsulated as the limestone was buried.
> >Mark
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Robert Szep" <zeprox_at_albedo.net>
> >To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:19 PM
> >Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone - Example from Sweden
> >
> >
> > > Hello Paul and list...
> > >
> > >
> > > I have found IRON NODULES in ~500 million year old limestone and
> know
> >where
> > > to find more.
> > > They are rather smooth and not, repeat NOT badly 'rusted'.
> > >
> > > The limestone surrounding the small pocket left behind after
> removing
> >the
> > > metal-object shows some discoloration but only in very close
> proximity
> >to
> > > where the nodule was.
> > > The metal in this limestone is far from abundant but then again I
> didn't
> > > hammer my way through any major amount of host material. At the time
> I
> > > thought the dense, roughly 1/2 inch nuggets might be meteorites but
> >figured
> > > the odds were slim.
> > > After reading your posting I realized the odds might not be nearly
> as
> >slim
> > > as I originally considered them to be.
> > >
> > > Here is my question to you and the 'list'...
> > > When a small metal object is found in ~500 million year old
> limestone,
> >what
> > > are the chances of that object being a meteorite?
> > >
> > > Replies to this posting, if any, should be interesting.
> > > If the consensis is better than 50/50 I might collect a few
> specimens
> >this
> > > weekend.
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards, Robert Szep.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Paul" <lenticulina1_at_yahoo.com>
> > > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:40 PM
> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Unconventional Meteorite Hunting - Example
>
> >from
> > > Sweden
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > It seems like there are some unconventional places
> > > > that people can look for meteorites. For example,
> > > > ancient meteorites have been found in the carbonate
> > > > rocks of Sweden as discussed in:
> > > >
> > > > Schmitz, B. Peucker-Ehrenbrink, Lindstrom, M., and
> > > > Tassinari, M., 1997, Accretion Rates of Meteorites
> > > > andCosmic Dust in the Early Ordovician. Science.
> > > > vol. 278, no. 5335, pp. 88-90.
> > > >
> > > > In this paper they discussed "Abundant fossil
> > > > meteorites" that were found in "...marine,
> > > > condensed Lower Ordovician limestones..."
> > > >
> > > > They note:
> > > >
> > > > 1. A 4-inch in diameter meteorite discovered
> > > > middle Ordovician Limestone in 1951, which was
> > > > described by Thorslund and Wickman (1981).
> > > >
> > > > 2. a swedish meteorite , called "Osterplana 1," which
> > > > was discovered in 5-million year older Lower Ordovician
> > > > limestone about 300 miles away from the above by Hansen
> > > > and Berstrom (1997).
> > > >
> > > > Twelve more meteorites have been found at the Thorsberg
> > > > Limestone Quarry. Hansen and Berstrom (1997, pp. 3)
> > > > stated:
> > > >
> > > > "A 10-foot-thick section of the
> > > > Holen ("Orthoceratite") Limestone,
> > > > of Early Middle Ordovician age, is
> > > > extracted at the Thorsberg quarry
> > > > and sawed into thin slabs that are
> > > > used for windowsills and floor tile.
> > > > Quarry workers discarded slabs with
> > > > impurities, such as the meteorites,
> > > > until Professor Maurits Lindstrom
> > > > of the University of Stockholm
> > > > alerted them to save such slabs.
> > > > The 12 specimens were recovered
> > > > between 1992 and 1996. Ten of the
> > > > specimens were recovered from a
> > > > 2-foot-thick bed of limestone and
> > > > may represent a single meteorite
> > > > fall. The other three specimens were
> > > > recovered from two separate levels
> > > > above this layer. Seven of the
> > > > specimens, collected between 1993 and
> > > > 1996, are from a quarried limestone
> > > > volume of no more than about 127,000
> > > > cubic feet. Most of the specimens are
> > > > now on display at the Stiftelsen Paleo
> > > > Geology Center in Lidkoping, Sweden."
> > > >
> > > > The meteorites found in the Thorsberg Quarry meteorites
> > > > range in size from about 0.5 to 3.5 inches in diameter.
> > > > They have been almost completely replaced by calcite and
> > > > barite. The meteorite masses are dark reddish brown and
> > > > look like iron nodules surrounded by a zone of lighter
> > > > colored limestone.
> > > >
> > > > It would be fun to look at correlative condensed sections,
> > > > in the United States and elsewhere for similar fossil
> > > > meteorites. If there was a period of increased meteorite
> > > > influx during the Ordovician, meteorites should findable
> > > > in the Untied States as well as Sweden.
> > > >
> > > > Additional and Cited References
> > > >
> > > > Hasen, M. C., and Bergstrom, S. M.. 1997, Ancient
> > > > meteorites. Ohio Geology, Spring 1997.
> > > >
> > > > Nystrom, J. O., and Wickman, F. E., 1991, The Ordovician
> > > > chondrite from Brunflo, central Sweden; II, Secondary
> > > > minerals. Lithos. vol. 27, no. 3, pp. 167-185.
> > > >
> > > > Nystrom, J. O., Lindstrom, M., and Wickman, F. E., 1988,
> > > > Discovery of a second Ordovician meteorite using
> > > > chromite as a tracer. Nature. vol. 336, pp. 572-574.
> > > >
> > > > Schmitz, B., Lindstrom, M., Asaro, F., and Tassinari, M.,
> > > > 1996, Geochemistry of meteorite-rich marine limestone
> > > > strata and fossil meteorites from the Lower Ordovician
> > > > at Kinnekulle, Sweden. Earth and Planetary Science
> > > > Letters. vol. 145, pp. 31-48.
> > > >
> > > > Thorslund, Per, and Wickman, F. E., 1981, Middle
> > > > Ordovician chondrite in fossiliferous limestone from
> > > > Brunflo, central Sweden. Nature. vol. 289, pp. 285-286.
> > > >
> > > > Thorslund, Per., Wickman, F. E., and Nystrom, J. O.,
> > > > 1984, The Ordovician chondrite from Brunflo, central
> > > > Sweden, I. General description and primary minerals.
> > > > Lithos. vol. 17, pp. 87-100.
> > > >
> > > > Another person, Andrew A. Sicree of the Earth and
> > > > Mineral Sciences Museum at Pennsylvania State University
> > > > is looking for meteorites in coal deposits. Web pages
> > > > and pdf files discussing his efforts can be found at:
> > > >
> > > > FINDING FOSSIL METEORITES:
> > > > http://www.meteorite.com/psu_find.htm
> > > >
> > > > Researchers Seek Meteorites In Coal Mines
> > > > http://www.psu.edu/ur/NEWS/SCIENCETECH/meteorite.html
> > > >
> > > > POTENTIAL FOR PRESERVATION AND RECOVERY OF FOSSIL
> > > > IRON METEORITES FROM COAL, TRONA, LIMESTONE, AND
> > > > OTHER SEDIMENTARY ROCKS.
> > > > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc97/pdf/5057.pdf
> > > >
> > > > There are likely various unorthodox places where
> > > > people might hunt for meteorites.
> > > >
> > > > Yours,
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > > Baton Rouge, LA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
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Received on Thu 02 Oct 2003 05:25:51 AM PDT