[meteorite-list] Glorieta Mountain

From: John Gwilliam <jkg_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:27:44 2004
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031103094737.0099ec50_at_mail.theriver.com>

Steve and List,

Three or four years ago, Ivan Koutyrev and I were sitting at John
Blennert's kitchen table talking about the possibilities of recovering some
of the Marjalati specimens that had been seen to fall into the
lake. According to Ivan, he had a very reliable source of information
about a large individual that fell into the water not far from
shore. Since Ivan was confident that he knew the location pretty well, I
suggested a large rare earth magnet attached to a long aluminum or plastic
pole. Ivan shook his head repeatedly and said it was a bad
idea. Finally,he drew me a picture. It showed the surface of the water
with a boat floating on it, a stick man with a long pole, and the bottom of
the lake. Along the bottom he had drawn several bombs!

Later, Ivan and his intrepid partner, Vladimir, made a trip to the lake
with some ancient scuba gear. Since neither of then had any experience
with diving, Ivan decide to stay in the boat and let Vladimir do the
diving(the brains of the operation '-)). Vladimir put on the gear, tied a
rope to himself and went into the water carrying a waterproof metal detector.

I wish I could have seen pictures of this diving equipment they
used. There are several experienced divers on the list including Gregory
Wilson, Dean Bessey and myself, and we all know that diving with
questionable, old equipment is courting disaster. All of my diving was
done with the aid of a computer that told me how long I'd been down, how
much air I had left, and how much longer I could dive that day without
risking getting "bent." Getting bent, or "the bends" is the result of
staying submerged too long and absorbing nitrogen into your
bloodstream. When you come to the surface, the nitrogen molecules expand
causing extreme pain and sometimes even death.

Vladimir's air tank didn't even have a pressure gauge on it - he had no way
of knowing when he was running low on air.

His first clue that he was out of air was when he tried to take a breath
and nothing happened. Up on top, Ivan had been watching the regular plume
of bubbles coming to the surface. After a while he noticed the bubbles had
stopped. Pulling on the rope brought a blue-faced Vladimir to the surface
where he gasped for air for quite some time before he was strong enough to
climb into the boat.

No, they didn't find any of the illusive pallasite...but oh...what an
adventure!

Best,

John Gwilliam

At 08:03 AM 11/3/03 -0800, Steve Schoner wrote:
>Harlan and all.
>
>Marjahlati does have fusion crust, but it is much blacker than what I have
>seen on Glorieta. The main mass of Marjahlati was broken on impact and
>the main piece sat outside of the Russian Academy for years and was picked
>at for its olivine crystals.
>
>These crystals were used as a standard for olivine, at least that is what
>I was told.
>
>Now, Marjahlati has two types of olivine. Gem quality and the powder
>type, like Imilac. The two meteorites, though different isotopic ally
>appear to be structurally related. For years, the powdered olivines of
>Imilac were interpreted as weathered olivine....
>
>I don't think so, I think that though weathering has occurred the
>structure of Marjahlati does have similar shattered olivines.
>
>These in flight and breakup often get scooped out so that pieces fall that
>have no olivine remaining.
>
>In the case of Marjahlati it was reported that the main mass, the only one
>recovered, fell on a granite outcrop and was shattered, but hoards of
>people that were bathing on the lake shore reported that the water off
>shore was peppered with numerous splashes from falling meteorites.
>
>Who knows how many pallasites are on the lake bottom.... But the problem
>now is that that lake was the site of major battles during WWII. There
>could be huge numbers of shells and bombs there now, as during the war, I
>think that the lake was a route for supplies to bolster Leningrad. It
>was bombed repeatedly by the NAZI's during the months that the ice was
>thick enough to allow the supply lines to go over it.
>
>So, if this is true... I would not venture to search for meteorites there.
>
>As for the olivine, in pallasites, I have noticed, especially with
>Glorieta that if they develop a crust it is usually black from the melt of
>the iron that surrounds them. I have not seen any olivines with their own
>unique fusion crust. It could be that they simply fracture under heat,
>until nothing is left.
>
>Nininger noted that in Glorieta the "thumbprints" were often the size of
>olivines, and that many of the small irons have these "thumbprints"
>
>See:
><http://www.geocities.com/american_meteorite_survey/GLORIETA.html>http://ww
>w.geocities.com/american_meteorite_survey/GLORIETA.html
>
>These "thumbprints" were according to Nininger, the result of the olivine
>being stripped out of the iron during the final phases of the flight.
>
>So where is that olivine now... It is most likely scattered all over the
>strewnfield in small grains.
>
>In 1986 I found a nickel sized olivine crystal. I picked it up and
>wondered about it, as one side had a very thin coating of black, a fusion
>crust. I could not believe that I had found such a nice crystal, all with
>my eyes and not with a detector (detector would not pick it up anyway).
>
>I would show it if I had it, for the pocket that I put it in had a hole....
>
>Ugh!
>
>So, maybe someone with good eyes will someday find it again.
>
>Steve Schoner/ams
>
>harlan trammell <skyrox_at_hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>glorieta IS my favorite meteorite because of exactly what you said+
>>steve's incredible quest occupying a major part of his life that paid of
>>for him. i have been buying little glorietas on ebay and love them. i
>>have one with a crust fresher than most sikhotes. the individuals are
>>great and the junky ones are really fun to cut, polish or etch. truly a
>>great american skyrock indeed! oh, exacly WAHT is the melting point of
>>olivene? is this melting point acheived during reentry or does the
>>olivene just heat up, crack and "flake"out of those holes? also, if
>>marjahlati is a pallasite fall, where are the crusted individuals like
>>glorieata?
>>
>> >From: "MARK BOSTICK"
>> >To: "Meteorite List"
>> >Subject: [meteorite-list] Glorieta Mountain
>> >Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:29:57 -0600
>> >
>> >Hello Everybody,
>> >
>> >Just spent the last few days at Glorieta Mountain....and the somewhat
>> local casinos.
>> >
>> >Man are those little irons hard to find. The mountains in this region
>> are a soft gravel sand like mixture that makes walking around them hard,
>> being 3500 ft up doesnt help either. I had to stop and take a rest every
>> thirty minutes or so to keep from tiring out.
>> >
>> >I went with a local collector, Jerry Calvert, and together we found two
>> meteorites, one each. Mine a tiny droplet and his a ~10g with a neat shape.
>> >
>> >Together we spent probley $500 on the trip and four days of time. Makes
>> you respect Glorieta Mountain hunters a little more.
>> >
>> >I have about 250 e-mails so please bear with me for a couple days.
>> >
>> >Mark Bostick
>> >www.meteoritearticles.com
>>
>>
>>----------
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Received on Mon 03 Nov 2003 12:12:31 PM PST