[meteorite-list] Shirokovsky
From: harlan trammell <skyrox_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:22:37 2004 Message-ID: <BAY1-F59e1fTvOSQeSO000035e2_at_hotmail.com> <html><div style='background-color:'><DIV> <P>it is a fake period. where is the crust? have you ever seen a slice 4 sale with even a "rind" of the edge showing? any troilite? i have bought real brahin complete with weathered hematite crust on edge for 60 cents/g. why bother w/ fakes for $40/g?<BR><BR></P></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>From: "Adam Hupe" <ADAMHUPE_at_ATTBI.COM> <DIV></DIV>>To: <METEORITE-LIST_at_METEORITECENTRAL.COM> <DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky <DIV></DIV>>Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:38:05 -0700 <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>Dear Laurie and List Members, <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>You are asking us to believe that the investigative team assembled by the <DIV></DIV>>Nomenclature Committee is in error? This team employed some of the best <DIV></DIV>>scientists in the world including the president of the Mineralogical <DIV></DIV>>Society. Carnegie Laboratory in Washington D.C. has some of the most up to <DIV></DIV>>date equipment in the world for testing oxygen-isotopes. Of course they <DIV></DIV>>prepared the samples properly and used Laser fluorination. They usually <DIV></DIV>>prepare several samples, not just one. They also constantly monitor the <DIV></DIV>>error on the equipment and can tell the error exactly on each run, usually <DIV></DIV>>less than 1%. The other institutions mentioned on the official Nom Com <DIV></DIV>>report regarding Shirokovsky employed scientist with decades of experience <DIV></DIV>>in the study of meteoritics. <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>There was not a single test in all the labs involved that showed this object <DIV></DIV>>to be a meteorite. I think it is time to start issuing refunds instead of <DIV></DIV>>pointing fingers at prestigious institutions and if by some miracle it is <DIV></DIV>>accepted as a meteorite in the future then sell some of it. <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>Best Regards, <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>Adam <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message ----- <DIV></DIV>>From: "Laurie Kallis" <LAURIEKALLIS_at_HOTMAIL.COM> <DIV></DIV>>To: <METEORITE-LIST_at_METEORITECENTRAL.COM> <DIV></DIV>>Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:38 AM <DIV></DIV>>Subject: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> > First, let me apologize for the length of this posting. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > We have been involved with the distribution of Shirokovsky Meteorite since <DIV></DIV>> > family made the recovery last year. Shirokovskymeteorite.com is our <DIV></DIV>>website. <DIV></DIV>> > Since questions of the meteorite's authenticity were raised we have <DIV></DIV>> > refrained from making sales and have added a clause to that effect to our <DIV></DIV>> > webiste. <DIV></DIV>> > One of the members of the Russian group who made the recovery has written <DIV></DIV>>in <DIV></DIV>> > response to the the questions of authenticity and the accusations. We have <DIV></DIV>> > translated his response and pasted it into the body of this email. This <DIV></DIV>> > same article will soon be added to the website. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > Specimens, properly prepared specimens, are currently being retested in <DIV></DIV>>St. <DIV></DIV>> > Petersburg. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > Until then........ <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > So,what on Earth is it? <DIV></DIV>> > Search Expeditions for the Ugleuralsky (Shirokovsky) Meteorite: 2000-2003 <DIV></DIV>> > What distinguished the search expeditions then known as the "Ugleuralsky" <DIV></DIV>> > meteorite expeditions from other contemporary meteoritic expeditions was <DIV></DIV>> > their official tone: the preparation under the auspices of the Russian <DIV></DIV>> > Geographical Society and the involvement of mass media. Thirty people, not <DIV></DIV>> > counting the local volunteers and Shirokovsky Power Station staff, <DIV></DIV>> > participated in the four search expeditions that took place between 2000 <DIV></DIV>>and <DIV></DIV>> > 2003. <DIV></DIV>> > First hand witnesses of the meteorite fall who still live in the <DIV></DIV>>Shirokovsky <DIV></DIV>> > village, those who came to the hole in the ice after experiencing the <DIV></DIV>>flash <DIV></DIV>> > of light and the sound effect in 1956, were thoroughly questioned. Their <DIV></DIV>> > recollections of the location of the point of impact coincided with the <DIV></DIV>> > topographic tyings to the terrain reported by the USSR Sverdlovsk Academy <DIV></DIV>>of <DIV></DIV>> > Science expedition carried out in 1956, immediately after the fall. <DIV></DIV>> > A detailed relief map of the reservoir bottom supplied by the board of the <DIV></DIV>> > Shirokovsky Power Station, in concordance with the opinions of specialists <DIV></DIV>> > in ballistics, determined the extent of the search area. <DIV></DIV>> > The search proved more difficult than expected because constant removal of <DIV></DIV>> > sunken timber logs from the reservoir bottom over the years had dispersed <DIV></DIV>> > the meteorite fragments over a much larger area than was originally <DIV></DIV>> > anticipated. Eventually, with the help of a metal detector, our group <DIV></DIV>> > recovered approximately 150 kg of samples. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > Encountering Difficulties <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > The friendliness shown by the local population was inversely proportional <DIV></DIV>>to <DIV></DIV>> > the growing awareness of the potential value of the possible find. A <DIV></DIV>> > representative of the local 'Family', paid us a visit by jeep, showing a <DIV></DIV>> > great but vaguely formulated interest in our diving activities. <DIV></DIV>> > After our diving group departed in late spring, scientists from the city <DIV></DIV>>of <DIV></DIV>> > Sverdlovsk, led by professor Grokhovsky, arrived with their own group of <DIV></DIV>> > divers who risked their lives on weakened ice that had developed cracks <DIV></DIV>>and <DIV></DIV>> > was no longer safe to walk on in the hope of locating any meteoritic <DIV></DIV>> > substance missed by our group. <DIV></DIV>> > We appealed to the Committee for Meteorites at the Vernadsky Institute to <DIV></DIV>> > have samples of the Shirokovsky specimens tested. Our appeal was rejected <DIV></DIV>>on <DIV></DIV>> > the grounds that they had no information about the Ugleuralsky meteorite <DIV></DIV>> > fall, despite a number of scientific and media reports dating back to <DIV></DIV>>1956. <DIV></DIV>> > Sampling services and subsequent registration were offered by enthusiast <DIV></DIV>>A. <DIV></DIV>> > Milanovsky (http://meteorites.narod.ru), but our group was not looking for <DIV></DIV>> > easy ways. We planned to have the Shirokovsky samples tested and <DIV></DIV>>registered <DIV></DIV>> > as a meteorite in another country. We sent a representative to the Girorne <DIV></DIV>> > Meteoritic Fair in Germany where he met people from the same CMET who <DIV></DIV>> > originally rejected our appeal to have the samples tested. This time, they <DIV></DIV>> > convinced our representative that it would be patriotic to carry out the <DIV></DIV>> > research and register the meteorite in Russia. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > Defining a Meteorite <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > Further developments in our quest to have Shirokovsky registered as a <DIV></DIV>> > meteorite can serve as a precedent for future discussions on the topic <DIV></DIV>>'what <DIV></DIV>> > should be considered a meteorite?'. <DIV></DIV>> > Historically, the system of identification and registration of meteorites <DIV></DIV>> > first presumes that a sample is either of terrestrial origin or <DIV></DIV>>artificial. <DIV></DIV>> > To prevent the Committee on Meteorites from being transformed into the <DIV></DIV>> > mining branch, they quickly sift out the 'rubbish', by searching for <DIV></DIV>> > specific features defined by a system of identification that follows <DIV></DIV>> > existing theories of the formation of the universe. Logically, the samples <DIV></DIV>> > treated most skeptically are those submitted without genealogy, those that <DIV></DIV>> > have no testimonial evidence of their fall or the point of impact. <DIV></DIV>> > In the case of Shirokovsky, not only is the area of the fall identified, <DIV></DIV>>but <DIV></DIV>> > the actual point of impact was accurately located in the frozen reservoir. <DIV></DIV>> > During the course of our four search expeditions, an area at the bottom of <DIV></DIV>> > the reservoir with a radius of 100m centered beneath the identified point <DIV></DIV>>of <DIV></DIV>> > impact was literally scrutinized with magnifying glasses and pincers. We <DIV></DIV>> > found no other stones capable of leaving the iron-nickel traces that were <DIV></DIV>> > found on the walls of the ice hole where the meteorite entered the <DIV></DIV>>reservoir <DIV></DIV>> > in 1956. Nor was anything found by our rivals, the alternative divers' <DIV></DIV>> > expedition from the city of Sverdlovsk. It is almost certain that what our <DIV></DIV>> > divers lifted from the reservoir bottom is what fell from the sky, broke <DIV></DIV>> > through the ice and left the iron nickel traces in 1956, simply because <DIV></DIV>> > their was nothing else found on the reservoir bottom that could have left <DIV></DIV>> > such traces. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > Testing of Shirokovsky <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > Recent testing of Shirokovsky has indicated that Shirokovsky is on the <DIV></DIV>> > terrestrial oxygen isotope fractionation line. Experts of the Kurchatov <DIV></DIV>> > Institute have questioned the purity of this testing because the sample <DIV></DIV>> > specimen was not properly prepared by means of laser ablation for the mass <DIV></DIV>> > spectrometry. Before it was tested, the sample underwent thermal, chemical <DIV></DIV>> > and other influences that may have led to substitution of oxygen in the <DIV></DIV>> > olivine. At this stage, the Saint Petersburgian Scientific Research <DIV></DIV>> > Institute will provide some aid with VSEGEI (noble gases, lead) and GIPCH <DIV></DIV>> > (oxygen) testing under the direction of the Russian Academy of Science <DIV></DIV>> > Precambrian Institute Research Laboratory of U. A. (Shukulukov and L. K. <DIV></DIV>> > Levsky), where the samples are currently being prepared. We expect that <DIV></DIV>>the <DIV></DIV>> > tests results will show either the shifting of isotopic ratio relative to <DIV></DIV>> > the line of terrestrial rocks or they will ascribe the sample to the <DIV></DIV>> > anomalous group - lunar, Martian, aubrita, etc - that contradicts the <DIV></DIV>> > homogeneous picture of the origin of the terrestrial rocks. <DIV></DIV>> > Radiogenic argon was found in the Shirokovsky specimens, although in <DIV></DIV>>smaller <DIV></DIV>> > quantities than expected. We hope that the figures will be more in line <DIV></DIV>> > after a properly prepared sample is tested at the above-mentioned <DIV></DIV>> > institutions. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > Making a Meteorite <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > When the test results, results from testing conducted on an improperly <DIV></DIV>> > prepared Shirokovsky specimen, favored a terrestrial origin, some <DIV></DIV>>speculated <DIV></DIV>> > that the specimen was an artificially produced 'false meteorite' - similar <DIV></DIV>> > to a product produced through blast furnace casting in the former USSR. <DIV></DIV>> > In response to this speculation, we turned to the staff of different <DIV></DIV>> > scientific and metallurgical institutions, questioning the possibility of <DIV></DIV>> > using existing technologies to create an object with a composition similar <DIV></DIV>> > to that of Shirokovsky. The metallurgists gave quite an irrefutable <DIV></DIV>>answer. <DIV></DIV>> > Only three ways of forming metal are known: <DIV></DIV>> > 1. forging <DIV></DIV>> > 2. casting <DIV></DIV>> > 3. sintering (powder metallurgy) <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > Forging: <DIV></DIV>> > Forging, where metal is heated to a high temperature, then hammered into <DIV></DIV>> > shape, is obviously out of the question. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > Casting <DIV></DIV>> > Casting an object with a composition similar to that of Shirokovsky is <DIV></DIV>> > possible only under zero gravity conditions, since Archimedean force would <DIV></DIV>> > instantly eject the lighter minerals to the surface. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > Sintering (Powder Metallurgy) <DIV></DIV>> > Sintering would allow minerals to disperse inside the mould. But no mould <DIV></DIV>> > could cast a stone with surface protrusions that jut out at opposing <DIV></DIV>>angles. <DIV></DIV>> > The extraction of the object from the mould would inevitably lead to its <DIV></DIV>> > destruction. Moreover, the outside cavities of the mould would tend to <DIV></DIV>>fill <DIV></DIV>> > with the smaller particles of powder instead of the larger mineral <DIV></DIV>>crystals. <DIV></DIV>> > Shirokovsky has surface protrusions that jut out at opposing angles. These <DIV></DIV>> > protrusions are filled with larger pieces of olivine and metallic matrix. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > What is Shirokovsky? <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > Thus, in summary, Shirokovsky can be described as: <DIV></DIV>> > "something found at the point of impact of a celestial body and something <DIV></DIV>> > impossible to produce with methods currently known to science". <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > A. Alexeyevich <DIV></DIV>> > Full Member of the Russian Geographical Society. <DIV></DIV>> > Participant of the search expedition for the Ugleuralsky (Shirokovsky) <DIV></DIV>> > meteorite. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > _________________________________________________________________ <DIV></DIV>> > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* <DIV></DIV>> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > ______________________________________________ <DIV></DIV>> > Meteorite-list mailing list <DIV></DIV>> > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com <DIV></DIV>> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>______________________________________________ <DIV></DIV>>Meteorite-list mailing list <DIV></DIV>>Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com <DIV></DIV>>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list <DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN 8 helps <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMCENUS/2743??PS=">ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. </a> Get 2 months FREE*.</html> Received on Thu 12 Jun 2003 12:54:57 PM PDT |
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