[meteorite-list] Old meteor coins

From: MexicoDoug_at_aol.com <MexicoDoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:17:40 2004
Message-ID: <ce.41a24481.2d04f427_at_aol.com>

--part1_ce.41a24481.2d04f427_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

No doubt some of the Roman Empire coins, and I bet a Greek coin or two put=20
religious objects from the Gods on a few coins in veneration which some of t=
he=20
links suggest may have been meteorites.=A0 Perhaps they were Roman Meteorwro=
ngs,=20
as Matteo wasn't there to check them, out, as I surfed to find if any of the=
se=20
original European-Middle-eastern objects of worship survived to be analyzed=20
in the current day, the answer seems to be "no", or with a completely=20
convincing history...perhaps the Syrian rock is an exception, though the Met=
eoritical=20
Society probably wouldn't nearly let it by.

When considering old coins and Meteors, I think the much more exciting story=
,=20
though only in a more contemporary sense would be the very first coins issue=
d=20
by the US in the early 1780's.=A0 These coins were called "Constellatio Nova=
"=20
(or Nova Constelletio more commonly in modern times because of somewhat=20
ambiguous way the two words were laid out; I don't know why it wouldn't be N=
ovo=20
Constelletio, other than assuming that the word Constelletio is feminine, as=
 it is=20
in the modern Latin languages).=A0 That translates to the birth of the "New=20
Constellation", which was a popular common man's symbol of reference of the=20
British American Colonies birth as a country during the revolution.

The Nova Constelletio coins picture what looks like a Sunburst, but is in=20
actuality a deeply religious message as well, easily as much as the more anc=
ient=20
beautiful Roman coins.=A0 This reflected the thought of the US founding fath=
ers,=20
with a little help in the late 1770's by a French designer, as they=20
reconciled a secular government that was favored by God.=A0 The center is si=
mply an eye=20
with rays of light originating from it in a circular pattern and thirteen st=
ars=20
appearing in the basically circular pattern at the limits of the "explosion"=
.

While the original intent may not have been to depict them as meteors in our=
=20
modern sense, but rather as new stars forming a new constellation, it would=20=
be=20
best not to judge them as meteorwrongs so quickly.=A0 On the contrary, in=20
1776-1783, I don't think the difference between a meteor and a bona fide nuc=
lear=20
powered star was well established, I somehow doubt that the concept of a sta=
r=20
going nova or supernova was understood at all.=A0 That leaves the very plaus=
ible,=20
if not probably and romantic explanation of the concept and coin depicting t=
he=20
thirteen colonies as meteors.=A0 Benjamin Franklin had argued against the=20
rising sun as a symbol, as he pointed out it could be a setting Sun as well.=
=A0 So=20
meteors were certainly a better choice.

Back to the Nova Constelletio pattern...Jefferson (who if anyone would have=20
had an idea of what a meteorite was, sadly did not) resisted the design for=20
reasons apparently completely unrelated to the design.=A0 Jefferson supporte=
d a=20
decimal system and new coinage denominations that were recognizable to the=20
average person, rather than the Nova Constelletio set, which had odd, large=20=
numbers=20
of unit divisions (1,440 or something like that) that in no way corresponded=
=20
to the Spanish Milled Dollar which was the most recognizable currency in=20
circulation at the time.=A0 So it was for political reasons that the designe=
d best=20
described as the most Meteoric in the history of well-documented civilizatio=
n.=A0=20
And while Jefferson and his outstanding intelligence was an asset to the new=
=20
Republic, we can observe that his normally scientific acumen was quite ignor=
ant=20
regarding meteorites, upon being notified of a probably witnessed fall, from=
=20
his biography, which at a stretch might explain also why the meteoric design=
=20
didn't stick to the coins after the re-denomination (assigning of the dollar=
 and=20
decimal divisions) rework:

....One day Thomas Jefferson was apprised of reports that something had=20
fallen from above. He was skeptical, to say the least: "I would sooner belie=
ve that=20
two Yankee professors lied," he declared, "than that stones fell from the=20
sky."...

(Well, I do declare :))

These coins never became established firmly in the US, though enjoyed an=20
initial wide circulation.=A0 The meteoric design survives and thrives; howev=
er, as=20
the Great Seal of the United States of America, both front (eagle) and back=20
(pyramid), and a similar "Eye of Providence" from which the meteors emanate=20=
on=20
the original coins can be seen on the back of a US one dollar bill at the to=
p of=20
the Great Pyramid in many of your wallets and purses.=A0 The bolides are the=
re=20
(look at it) and have multiplied through the years.=A0 A further interesting=
=20
note is that the pyramid upon which the divine eye rests is not completed, a=
nd=20
the triangle in which the eye floats above is not part of it.=A0 It is more=20=
along=20
the lines of the Christian Trinity that a triangle is around the eye, also=20
called the "Eye of Providence," in a sense replacing pagan and militantly=20
religious views with a Christian leaning secular thought (oddly the seal's L=
atin say=20
"God favors our cause; New Secular Order").=A0 The entire message tending to=
 be=20
religion is OK, but knowledge is divine.=A0 This reflects the negotiation of=
=20
religion and paganism (pyramid foundation) vs. science (Eye related to the d=
ivine=20
creator but not well defined, other than "creator").

Now the front side of the Great Seal of the US with the Eagle also has the=20
thirteen stars on the interior of the meteor trails forming the circle, grou=
ped=20
in pattern of a six-pointed star above the eagle's head.=A0 Here the meteor=20
trails more resemble some of the original Nova Constelletio patterns, but th=
e=20
stars are on the wrong side if we are to believe they are meteors.=A0 They a=
re on=20
the interior of a circle of clouds.

The meteoric trails on both sides of the seal can be perhaps better=20
understood considering that a competing though also complementary explanatio=
n for the=20
meteoric trails, collectively called a "Glory", is based on the rays of ligh=
t=20
formed by the Sun as it penetrates the clouds.=A0 This also represents God's=
=20
"Light".

Actually both the God's light and the birth of the "new constellation" are=20
behind the symbols on the US $1 bill, and this is still a modern interpretat=
ion=20
of the original symbols (The new constellation is modernly very misrepresent=
ed=20
by arranging the five pointed stars in a six-pointed star, for example, and=20
they never were five or six pointed stars originally, but rather asterisks).=
=A0=20
Going back to the originals it is self evident to me that the new=20
constellation, Nova Constelletio, is unambiguously meteoric given the knowle=
dge at the=20
time.

Also, the original constellation of thirteen stars in dark blue field are=20
arranged in a circle principally because of the meteoric explosion creating=20=
the=20
new constellation, where material is ejected in a uniform...equality...way.

Considering the understanding of meteors at the time, it is obvious that=20
these Nova Constelletio coins depict what would be considered at that time q=
uite=20
reasonable as a divine meteor shower where the shooting stars organized into=
=20
the new constellation, a.k.a., the new nation.=A0 Also, that's why there are=
 stars=20
in the US flag and they are all meteors by 18th century thought.

If Ben Franklin knew what we know today, you can bet he would have come up=20
with some snide remarks on how meteors can become meteorites, or worse yet=20
vaporized.=A0 Remember, he's the one with the setting/rising Sun Joke, and t=
he one=20
who thought the Turkey should have trumped the Eagle for the national symbol=
.

Some of you might point out that the Nova Constelletio design doesn't=20
commemorate or venerate specific stones.=A0 That, in part is the point, just=
 a meteor=20
shower is an event, that is precisely what some of the founding fathers of t=
he=20
US had in mind, and the religious meaning behind it is unalienable:).=A0 As=20
discussed, none of the ones on the Roman coins are confirmed or known, eithe=
r, and=20
I personally find the historical record of the Nova Constelletio coins=20
fascinating when waliking around the candystore of coins.

Clear Skies & Pleasant Deserts.
Doug Dawn
Monterrey

--part1_ce.41a24481.2d04f427_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">No doubt some of the Roman Empire coins, and I bet a G=
reek coin or two put religious objects from the Gods on a few coins in vener=
ation which some of the links suggest may have been meteorites.=A0 Perhaps t=
hey were Roman Meteorwrongs, as Matteo wasn't there to check them, out, as I=
 surfed to find if any of these original European-Middle-eastern objects of=20=
worship survived to be analyzed in the current day, the answer seems to be "=
no", or with a completely convincing history...perhaps the Syrian rock is an=
 exception, though the Meteoritical Society probably wouldn't nearly let it=20=
by.<BR>
<BR>
When considering old coins and Meteors, I think the much more exciting story=
, though only in a more contemporary sense would be the very first coins iss=
ued by the US in the early 1780's.=A0 These coins were called "Constellatio=20=
Nova" (or Nova Constelletio more commonly in modern times because of somewha=
t ambiguous way the two words were laid out; I don't know why it wouldn't be=
 Novo Constelletio, other than assuming that the word Constelletio is femini=
ne, as it is in the modern Latin languages).=A0 That translates to the birth=
 of the "New Constellation", which was a popular common man's symbol of refe=
rence of the British American Colonies birth as a country during the revolut=
ion.<BR>
<BR>
The Nova Constelletio coins picture what looks like a Sunburst, but is in ac=
tuality a deeply religious message as well, easily as much as the more ancie=
nt beautiful Roman coins.=A0 This reflected the thought of the US founding f=
athers, with a little help in the late 1770's by a French designer, as they=20=
reconciled a secular government that was favored by God.=A0 The center is si=
mply an eye with rays of light originating from it in a circular pattern and=
 thirteen stars appearing in the basically circular pattern at the limits of=
 the "explosion".<BR>
<BR>
While the original intent may not have been to depict them as meteors in our=
 modern sense, but rather as new stars forming a new constellation, it would=
 be best not to judge them as meteorwrongs so quickly.=A0 On the contrary, i=
n 1776-1783, I don't think the difference between a meteor and a bona fide n=
uclear powered star was well established, I somehow doubt that the concept o=
f a star going nova or supernova was understood at all.=A0 That leaves the v=
ery plausible, if not probably and romantic explanation of the concept and c=
oin depicting the thirteen colonies as meteors.=A0 Benjamin Franklin had arg=
ued against the rising sun as a symbol, as he pointed out it could be a sett=
ing Sun as well.=A0 So meteors were certainly a better choice.<BR>
<BR>
Back to the Nova Constelletio pattern...Jefferson (who if anyone would have=20=
had an idea of what a meteorite was, sadly did not) resisted the design for=20=
reasons apparently completely unrelated to the design.=A0 Jefferson supporte=
d a decimal system and new coinage denominations that were recognizable to t=
he average person, rather than the Nova Constelletio set, which had odd, lar=
ge numbers of unit divisions (1,440 or something like that) that in no way c=
orresponded to the Spanish Milled Dollar which was the most recognizable cur=
rency in circulation at the time.=A0 So it was for political reasons that th=
e designed best described as the most Meteoric in the history of well-docume=
nted civilization.=A0 And while Jefferson and his outstanding intelligence w=
as an asset to the new Republic, we can observe that his normally scientific=
 acumen was quite ignorant regarding meteorites, upon being notified of a pr=
obably witnessed fall, from his biography, which at a stretch might explain=20=
also why the meteoric design didn't stick to the coins after the re-denomina=
tion (assigning of the dollar and decimal divisions) rework:<BR>
<BR>
....One day Thomas Jefferson was apprised of reports that something had fall=
en from above. He was skeptical, to say the least: "I would sooner believe t=
hat two Yankee professors lied," he declared, "than that stones fell from th=
e sky."...<BR>
<BR>
(Well, I do declare :))<BR>
<BR>
These coins never became established firmly in the US, though enjoyed an ini=
tial wide circulation.=A0 The meteoric design survives and thrives; however,=
 as the Great Seal of the United States of America, both front (eagle) and b=
ack (pyramid), and a similar "Eye of Providence" from which the meteors eman=
ate on the original coins can be seen on the back of a US one dollar bill at=
 the top of the Great Pyramid in many of your wallets and purses.=A0 The bol=
ides are there (look at it) and have multiplied through the years.=A0 A furt=
her interesting note is that the pyramid upon which the divine eye rests is=20=
not completed, and the triangle in which the eye floats above is not part of=
 it.=A0 It is more along the lines of the Christian Trinity that a triangle=20=
is around the eye, also called the "Eye of Providence," in a sense replacing=
 pagan and militantly religious views with a Christian leaning secular thoug=
ht (oddly the seal's Latin say "God favors our cause; New Secular Order").=
=A0 The entire message tending to be religion is OK, but knowledge is divine=
.=A0 This reflects the negotiation of religion and paganism (pyramid foundat=
ion) vs. science (Eye related to the divine creator but not well defined, ot=
her than "creator").<BR>
<BR>
Now the front side of the Great Seal of the US with the Eagle also has the t=
hirteen stars on the interior of the meteor trails forming the circle, group=
ed in pattern of a six-pointed star above the eagle's head.=A0 Here the mete=
or trails more resemble some of the original Nova Constelletio patterns, but=
 the stars are on the wrong side if we are to believe they are meteors.=A0 T=
hey are on the interior of a circle of clouds.<BR>
<BR>
The meteoric trails on both sides of the seal can be perhaps better understo=
od considering that a competing though also complementary explanation for th=
e meteoric trails, collectively called a "Glory", is based on the rays of li=
ght formed by the Sun as it penetrates the clouds.=A0 This also represents G=
od's "Light".<BR>
<BR>
Actually both the God's light and the birth of the "new constellation" are b=
ehind the symbols on the US $1 bill, and this is still a modern interpretati=
on of the original symbols (The new constellation is modernly very misrepres=
ented by arranging the five pointed stars in a six-pointed star, for example=
, and they never were five or six pointed stars originally, but rather aster=
isks).=A0 Going back to the originals it is self evident to me that the new=20=
constellation, Nova Constelletio, is unambiguously meteoric given the knowle=
dge at the time.<BR>
<BR>
Also, the original constellation of thirteen stars in dark blue field are ar=
ranged in a circle principally because of the meteoric explosion creating th=
e new constellation, where material is ejected in a uniform...equality...way=
.<BR>
<BR>
Considering the understanding of meteors at the time, it is obvious that the=
se Nova Constelletio coins depict what would be considered at that time quit=
e reasonable as a divine meteor shower where the shooting stars organized in=
to the new constellation, a.k.a., the new nation.=A0 Also, that's why there=20=
are stars in the US flag and they are all meteors by 18th century thought.<B=
R>
<BR>
If Ben Franklin knew what we know today, you can bet he would have come up w=
ith some snide remarks on how meteors can become meteorites, or worse yet va=
porized.=A0 Remember, he's the one with the setting/rising Sun Joke, and the=
 one who thought the Turkey should have trumped the Eagle for the national s=
ymbol.<BR>
<BR>
Some of you might point out that the Nova Constelletio design doesn't commem=
orate or venerate specific stones.=A0 That, in part is the point, just a met=
eor shower is an event, that is precisely what some of the founding fathers=20=
of the US had in mind, and the religious meaning behind it is unalienable:).=
=A0 As discussed, none of the ones on the Roman coins are confirmed or known=
, either, and I personally find the historical record of the Nova Constellet=
io coins fascinating when waliking around the candystore of coins.<BR>
<BR>
Clear Skies &amp; Pleasant Deserts.<BR>
Doug Dawn<BR>
Monterrey<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_ce.41a24481.2d04f427_boundary--
Received on Sun 07 Dec 2003 04:22:47 PM PST