[meteorite-list] Elma Status?

From: Michael Farmer <farmerm_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:16:31 2004
Message-ID: <012301c35d54$3de304f0$0830ef42_at_S0031628003>

Adam and everyone, here is my take on this simply put. I am not trying to
cause problems with this, just show that people in this community need to
stick together to assist the meteoritical society process, study, and
publish meteorites in a timely manner.
We all get a kick out of all the kooks and wackos trying to scam dealers,
collectors, and scientists. We all laugh at them, harass them on ebay etc.
Now, Adam, you said when you went there that this was not a meteorite, there
was not a sign of a meteorite, and yet you are now submitting samples of
strange crap that you know is not a meteorite. The best thing in my opinion
would be to walk away from Elma, realize that a scam happened, and forget
about it. Instead you are submitting samples, that are not meteorites. This
causes in a roundabout way, a serious waste of time for scientists.
    This can apply to any situation, not just this one.
Mike Farmer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Hupe" <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
To: "Tom aka James Knudson" <knudson911_at_frontiernet.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?


> Hi Tom and List members,
>
> I am only responding because a problem seems to be developing here. Mike
> Farmer claims scientists are wasting their time on this material and that
> this is a waste of bandwidth on the List. The scientists are the ones who
> dispatched us to bring this material to them. The University of
Washington
> is studying this material own their own and we are simply assisting by
> bringing material in. If you look at the archives I did not initiate this
> "Elma status" chain, I simply responded to a question. You propagated
this
> long string by asking several questions which were posted to the list.
> Since they were posted to the List I responded publicly. If this means I
am
> wasting bandwidth you are just as guilty by posting questions to the list.
>
> If this is what the List members want. I will simply will not post future
> results obtained in the lab regarding this material, pretty simple, no
need
> for you and Mike to get nasty.
>
> All the best,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <knudson911_at_frontiernet.net>
> To: "Michael Farmer" <farmerm_at_concentric.net>; "Adam Hupe"
> <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
>
>
> > Hello List, Mike wrote;
> > ", I am simply offended by people wasting
> > scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to
> get
> > a simple classification."
> >
> > I have to agree with mike here. Adam and Greg said this was not a
> meteorite
> > in the beginning, and I think they would know! But, I for one, have been
> > chastised big time for posting OT things to the list. There was not a
fall
> > in Elma and the things the people from Elma are claiming to meteorites
are
> > not meteorites and in my opinion have no place on the list. I am
> interested
> > in the end result, but until then, I think we should save Art some
> bandwidth
> > on this subject.
> >
> > Thanks, Tom
> > Peregrineflier <><
> > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Michael Farmer <farmerm_at_concentric.net>
> > To: Adam Hupe <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> > Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:12 AM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> >
> >
> > > Ok Adam, tell us all, where did you get your science degree? Oh I
> forgot,
> > > you have none, so please stop playing scientist.
> > > I don't have a closed mind, I am simply offended by people wasting
> > > scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years
to
> > get
> > > a simple classification.
> > > Mike Farmer
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Adam Hupe" <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> > > To: "Michael Farmer" <farmerm_at_concentric.net>
> > > Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:40 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey Mike and Dear List,
> > > >
> > > > Ex and current NASA scientist know the difference between tar and
> glass.
> > > > Maybe you should have an open mind because you would be blown away
by
> > the
> > > > lab results if you truly understood mineralogy. This is definitely
> not
> > > tar,
> > > > only somebody with a closed mind and no understanding of chemistry
> would
> > > > make such a statement, go back to school.
> > > >
> > > > Adam
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Michael Farmer" <farmerm_at_concentric.net>
> > > > To: "Charles R. Viau" <cviau_at_beld.net>; "'Adam Hupe'"
> > > > <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:14 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Well, It CANNOT be a tekite, tektites are made by large impacts
> > melting
> > > > the
> > > > > impacted rock. these were found in a telephone pole! My god, every
> > > > telephone
> > > > > pole I have ever seen is covered in tar or whatever weird melted
> black
> > > > stuff
> > > > > they use, sort of like tar on house roofs, which I believe that
the
> > > Hupes
> > > > > also "found" in the debris from my printer-smashing Park Forest.
> HMMMM
> > > > tiny
> > > > > little melted tektites found on the floor under the smashed
shingles
> > and
> > > > > tarred roof, more little melted glass like "tektites" found in and
> > round
> > > a
> > > > > telephone pole at the site of a stupid hoax that got way more
> > attention
> > > > than
> > > > > it should have. I see a curious pattern forming here. Maybe there
> > were
> > > > some
> > > > > "bugs" smashed into the tar so we have little "spidy" creatures
like
> > the
> > > > > Frass meteorite.
> > > > > Charles. I have never heard of you, but I assure you that I
> > know
> > > > just
> > > > > a tad more than you might think, and I assure you that this is a
> waste
> > > of
> > > > > scientific time.
> > > > > It defies the most simple things that we know about meteorites,
thus
> > > > making
> > > > > it bogus.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Farmer
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Charles R. Viau" <cviau_at_beld.net>
> > > > > To: "'Michael Farmer'" <farmerm_at_concentric.net>; "'Adam Hupe'"
> > > > > <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Given the reputation of the people examining this stuff, how
busy
> > they
> > > > > > are, and the amount of time they are willing to spend on this -
> It's
> > > not
> > > > > > crap. It is probably more related to a tektite than anything
else
> if
> > > one
> > > > > > were to summon up a simile , and how did pieces of this wind up
> > > embedded
> > > > > > in a telephone pole? - I think the Hupe brothers , as well as
the
> > > PhD's
> > > > > > in those labs are doing their job because they believe there is
> > > > > > scientific merit in doing so, and no matter what the outcome,
they
> > > need
> > > > > > to know what it is because it passed through the filters that
> would
> > > have
> > > > > > tossed 'crap' out 2 weeks ago. Perhaps, if you had some of this
> > stuff
> > > > > > you might feel different.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Charlyv
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > > > > > [mailto:meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> > > Michael
> > > > > > Farmer
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM
> > > > > > To: Adam Hupe; meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Give me a break people, this is retarded. Yep, YE HAA PA saw
that
> > > there
> > > > > > little glass chunks fall out of the sky and they burnded my
hands
> > two
> > > > > > weeks
> > > > > > later!
> > > > > > Why waste time on this crap.
> > > > > > Mike Farmer
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Adam Hupe" <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:26 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No glass manufacturing process would use this kind of sand
> because
> > > of
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > impurities and why would glass be spread into a shot-put pit
> where
> > > > > > kids
> > > > > > > could get cut on the sharp edges? I am not going to speculate
> too
> > > > > > much
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > until we get more lab results. Two other labs have weighed in
> on
> > > this
> > > > > > > occurrence and it just keeps getting odder.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All the best,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Adam
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <knudson911_at_frontiernet.net>
> > > > > > > To: "Adam Hupe" <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>;
> > > > > > > <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:17 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello All, How about a glass manufacturing bi-product?
> > > > > > > > Thanks, Tom
> > > > > > > > Peregrineflier <><
> > > > > > > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: Adam Hupe <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > > > > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:08 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Tom and List,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The problem with this material is that it does not contain
> any
> > > > > > metal.
> > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal,
> even
> > at
> > > > > > > > microprobe
> > > > > > > > > levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material
> coming
> > > > > > from an
> > > > > > > > > industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard
of.
> > If
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > came
> > > > > > > > > from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center.
> The
> > > sand
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like
> chondrules,
> > > like
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > condensation product, which is extremely odd. It was
> > extremely
> > > > > > > difficult
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > make thin-sections of this stuff because of the friability
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > material
> > > > > > > > > trapped inside.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Will update as we get more results,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Adam
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <knudson911_at_frontiernet.net>
> > > > > > > > > To: "mafer" <mafer_at_imagineopals.com>; "Adam Hupe"
> > > > > > <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > > > > > Cc: "meteor central" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:39 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting
> > > > > > bi-product
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma?
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Tom
> > > > > > > > > > Peregrineflier <><
> > > > > > > > > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > From: mafer <mafer_at_imagineopals.com>
> > > > > > > > > > To: Adam Hupe <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > > > > > > Cc: meteor central <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and
> > > smoldering
> > > > > > > pieces
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > "basaltic" glass with sand inside, sounds like some
> > > > > > atmospheric
> > > > > > > event
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: Adam Hupe <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > > > > > > > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, Mike and List,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so
to
> > > > > > speak.
> > > > > > It
> > > > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be just as or more interesting to the
> > scientific
> > > > > > > community.
> > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > jury is still out on exactly what this material is
or
> > how
> > > it
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > created.
> > > > > > > > > > > > The initial lab results created more questions than
> > > answers.
> > > > > > As
> > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > > > reported this material consist of sand incased in a
> > > basaltic
> > > > > > glass
> > > > > > > > > > shell.
> > > > > > > > > > > > The materials in the glass are not separated into
> swirls
> > > so
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > ever
> > > > > > > > > > > > created these objects had a huge amount of energy
and
> > the
> > > > > > glass
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > > quenched
> > > > > > > > > > > > very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see
> how
> > > > > > these
> > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > > been created. We should have more answers by next
> week.
> > > > > > This
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > > > > > > more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting.
> > For
> > > > > > now,
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > > keeping an open mind regarding this material.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > All the best,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Adam and Greg Hupe
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Michael Farmer" <farmerm_at_concentric.net>
> > > > > > > > > > > > To: "Mike Groetz" <mpg444_at_yahoo.com>; "Meteorite
List"
> > > > > > > > > > > > <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance
> in
> > > hell
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > meteorite
> > > > > > > > > > > > > was recovered there.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Farmer
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Mike Groetz" <mpg444_at_yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > To: "Meteorite List"
> > > <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this all said and done with or is the jury
> > still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > out with any maybe's?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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Received on Thu 07 Aug 2003 10:24:47 PM PDT