[meteorite-list] The big questions?
From: John Divelbiss <j.divelbiss_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:08:19 2004 Message-ID: <002701c251c0$d60f68e0$ab155a0c_at_0m824> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2519F.4DF2C180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Shaun, Rob and rest of list, In regards to making a sale...what is the proper (or recommended) = protocol for sending identification with the reselling of a given = piece?. If John Doe buys from Dealer A who has a reputable history and = provides a card saying Dealer A's Meteorites or from the Collection of = Dealer A, what has more meaning: to resale with a new card from John = Doe's Meteorites, or to provide the old card from the long standing = Dealer A? I suppose it has more to do with whether John Doe is trying to = gain his own reputation as a dealer or resaler (as Mike Blood suggests = many of us are). If one is just trying to unload some pieces on = occasion, it may mean more to pass on documention from the previous = source.=20 Or, is it up to the new dealer/resaler John Doe to stand up and say it = is what it is, or should he wait some period of time to do that until he = gains trust in the collectors? I've seen it both ways, but for new guys = guys like Shaun and I, "what is the recommended practice?" I plan on = selling some of my collection this fall, so I'm looking for advice. John Divelbiss ----- Original Message -----=20 From: FERNLEA4_at_aol.com=20 To: shauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com=20 Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The big questions? In a message dated 30/08/02 17:54:06 GMT Daylight Time, = shauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com writes: What it comes down to is this, how can anyone that can't study = these rocks know for sure what they are. Say I purchased two different = H4 meteorites and both look alike in most respects. How can anyone know = its not the same stone with a different name pinned on it. Hi Shaun and all. I don't think anyone replied to Shaun's questions, so I'll have a stab = at answering them. Regarding two different H4's that look the same visually, and how to = tell that they're not from the same stone, the short answer to this = is.....you can't!...at least, not easily! With a bit of collecting/dealing experience, you can get a "feel" for = some named meteorites and know what to expect them to look like, but = that's VERY far from being conclusive and not much better than an = educated guess. Even electron microprobe and petrologic microscope might = not be able to duplicate the original analysis exactly, and tell with = 100% certainty, precisely which named fall or find is under study. When buying meteorites, anyone should ask themselves how much faith = they have in a dealer/seller, or ask other collectors for their opinions = about them. Crap and bogus sellers don't tend to last very long in this = game luckily, so anyone should be able to find out quite easily who to = avoid. Major dealers often trade meteorites with museums & institutions, and = when a trade completes there's a certain amount of documentation = involved. Other times, deals might be closed with professional = meteoriticists, but there's usually full TRACEABILITY in one form or = another. Personally speaking, I don't (and won't!) start pulling out = past trade documentation from the filing cabinet and wave them about = just to prove something to a cautious buyer in order to close a sale, = but I have them here safely. << How can I assure anyone who buys my product that this is the = genuine article.>> It can take time - especially if this is the first time the buyer has = ever considered buying a meteorite before, and perhaps only then because = they chanced upon your website late one night while playing around with = the search engines. Anyone with any common sense would surely find out a = bit more about meteorites before parting with hard cash, but they will = probably look to you as the expert and fire a load of questions at you. = Don't blind them with science and talk of chondrules or stuff like that = (not yet! ;-) )......if they are genuinely interested, pictures are = probably the best place for them to start learning. Maybe tell them to = look in their family encyclopaedia under "meteorites" and to check out = the pictures of etched iron meteorites and cut stones. I have an old set = of encylopaedias here that are almost as old as I am (41), but they have = pages and pages of meteorite info & pictures which clearly match many = iron & stony meteorites on the market today....sometimes, they ARE the = actual meteorites on the market today!! Failing that, library books, the = internet etc. Just don't give them the hard-sell routine, as it rarely works anyway. << you have to admitt, this is a funny market on meteorites. >> That's for sure! Some people I've met over the years are beyond convincing and will = never fully believe that these chunks of stone & iron are genuine = meteorites, no matter what I tell them. To some, it's all seems far too = unlikely that private individuals can ever own a meteorite. Books help, especially those with pictures that clearly match up with = the space rock you're holding in your hand alongside the page. Arm = yourself with Richard Norton's new "Rocks from Space" and then let = people make up their own minds during your next "show and tell" session = :-) Cheers, Rob. www.meteorites.uk.com Fernlea Meteorites, The Wynd, Off Dickson Lane, Milton of Balgonie, Fife. KY7 6PY United Kingdom Tel: +44-(0)1592-751563 Fax: +44-(0)1592-751991 Mobile: 07909-773929 Email: fernlea4_at_aol.com=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2519F.4DF2C180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3314.2100" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Shaun, Rob and rest of list,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>In regards to making a sale...what is the proper=20 (or recommended) protocol for sending identification with the = reselling of=20 a given piece?. If John Doe buys from Dealer A who has a=20 reputable history and provides a card saying Dealer A's Meteorites = or from=20 the Collection of Dealer A, what has more meaning: to resale with a = new=20 card from John Doe's Meteorites, or to provide the old card from the = long=20 standing Dealer A</FONT><FONT size=3D2>? I suppose it has more to do = with=20 whether John Doe is trying to gain his own reputation as a=20 dealer or resaler (as Mike Blood suggests many of us are). If one=20 is just trying to unload some pieces on occasion, it may mean more = to pass=20 on documention from the previous source. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Or, is it up to the new dealer/resaler John Doe to = stand up=20 and say it is what it is, or should he wait some period of time to = do=20 that until he gains trust in the collectors? I've seen it both = ways, but=20 for new guys guys like Shaun and I, "what is the recommended=20 practice?" I plan on selling some of my collection this = fall,=20 so I'm looking for advice.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>John Divelbiss</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:FERNLEA4_at_aol.com" = title=3DFERNLEA4_at_aol.com>FERNLEA4@aol.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:shauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com"=20 title=3Dshauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com>shauncdaniel@hotmail.com</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com"=20 = title=3Dmeteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>meteorite-list@meteoritecentr= al.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 31, 2002 = 11:11=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [meteorite-list] = The big=20 questions?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT face=3DArial = lang=3D0 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">In a message dated 30/08/02 17:54:06 GMT Daylight = Time, <A=20 href=3D"mailto:shauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com">shauncdaniel@hotmail.com</A>=20 writes:<BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20 TYPE=3D"CITE">What it comes down to is this, how can anyone that = can't=20 study these rocks know for sure what they are. Say I purchased two=20 different H4 meteorites and both look alike in most respects. = How can=20 anyone know its not the same stone with a different name pinned on=20 it.</FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D3=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 = face=3DArial=20 lang=3D0 size=3D2 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>Hi=20 Shaun and all.<BR>I don't think anyone replied to Shaun's questions, = so I'll=20 have a stab at answering them.<BR>Regarding two different H4's that = look the=20 same visually, and how to tell that they're not from the same stone, = the short=20 answer to this is.....you can't!...at least, not easily!<BR>With a bit = of=20 collecting/dealing experience, you can get a "feel" for some named = meteorites=20 and know what to expect them to look like, but that's VERY far from = being=20 conclusive and not much better than an educated guess. Even electron=20 microprobe and petrologic microscope might not be able to duplicate = the=20 original analysis exactly, and tell with 100% certainty, precisely = which named=20 fall or find is under study.<BR><BR>When buying meteorites, anyone = should ask=20 themselves how much faith they have in a dealer/seller, or ask other=20 collectors for their opinions about them. Crap and bogus sellers don't = tend to=20 last very long in this game luckily, so anyone should be able to find = out=20 quite easily who to avoid.<BR>Major dealers often trade meteorites = with=20 museums & institutions, and when a trade completes there's a = certain=20 amount of documentation involved. Other times, deals might be closed = with=20 professional meteoriticists, but there's usually full TRACEABILITY in = one form=20 or another. Personally speaking, I don't (and won't!) start pulling = out past=20 trade documentation from the filing cabinet and wave them about just = to prove=20 something to a cautious buyer in order to close a sale, but I have = them here=20 safely.<BR><BR><< How can I assure anyone who buys my product = that this=20 is the genuine article.</FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial = lang=3D0 size=3D3=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">>><BR></FONT><FONT=20 color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D2 = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>It can take time - especially if this is the = first time=20 the buyer has ever considered buying a meteorite before, and perhaps = only then=20 because they chanced upon your website late one night while playing = around=20 with the search engines. Anyone with any common sense would surely = find out a=20 bit more about meteorites before parting with hard cash, but they will = probably look to you as the expert and fire a load of questions at = you. Don't=20 blind them with science and talk of chondrules or stuff like that (not = yet!=20 ;-) )......if they are genuinely interested, pictures are probably the = best=20 place for them to start learning. Maybe tell them to look in their = family=20 encyclopaedia under "meteorites" and to check out the pictures of = etched iron=20 meteorites and cut stones. I have an old set of encylopaedias here = that are=20 almost as old as I am (41), but they have pages and pages of meteorite = info=20 & pictures which clearly match many iron & stony meteorites on = the=20 market today....sometimes, they ARE the actual meteorites on the = market=20 today!! Failing that, library books, the internet etc.<BR>Just don't = give them=20 the hard-sell routine, as it rarely works anyway.<BR><BR><< you = have to=20 admitt, this is a funny market on meteorites.</FONT><FONT = color=3D#000000=20 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D3 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">=20 >><BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 = size=3D2=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">That's for = sure!<BR>Some=20 people I've met over the years are beyond convincing and will never = fully=20 believe that these chunks of stone & iron are genuine meteorites, = no=20 matter what I tell them. To some, it's all seems far too unlikely that = private=20 individuals can ever own a meteorite.<BR>Books help, especially those = with=20 pictures that clearly match up with the space rock you're holding in = your hand=20 alongside the page. Arm yourself with Richard Norton's new "Rocks from = Space"=20 and then let people make up their own minds during your next "show and = tell"=20 session :-)<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Rob.<BR>www.meteorites.uk.com<BR>Fernlea = Meteorites,<BR>The Wynd,<BR>Off Dickson Lane,<BR>Milton of = Balgonie,<BR>Fife.=20 KY7 6PY<BR>United Kingdom<BR>Tel: +44-(0)1592-751563<BR>Fax:=20 +44-(0)1592-751991<BR>Mobile: 07909-773929<BR>Email: = fernlea4_at_aol.com</FONT>=20 </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2519F.4DF2C180-- Received on Sun 01 Sep 2002 10:06:56 AM PDT |
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