[meteorite-list] The big questions?

From: John Divelbiss <j.divelbiss_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:08:19 2004
Message-ID: <002701c251c0$d60f68e0$ab155a0c_at_0m824>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2519F.4DF2C180
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Shaun, Rob and rest of list,

In regards to making a sale...what is the proper (or recommended) =
protocol for sending identification with the reselling of a given =
piece?. If John Doe buys from Dealer A who has a reputable history and =
provides a card saying Dealer A's Meteorites or from the Collection of =
Dealer A, what has more meaning: to resale with a new card from John =
Doe's Meteorites, or to provide the old card from the long standing =
Dealer A? I suppose it has more to do with whether John Doe is trying to =
gain his own reputation as a dealer or resaler (as Mike Blood suggests =
many of us are). If one is just trying to unload some pieces on =
occasion, it may mean more to pass on documention from the previous =
source.=20

Or, is it up to the new dealer/resaler John Doe to stand up and say it =
is what it is, or should he wait some period of time to do that until he =
gains trust in the collectors? I've seen it both ways, but for new guys =
guys like Shaun and I, "what is the recommended practice?" I plan on =
selling some of my collection this fall, so I'm looking for advice.

John Divelbiss
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: FERNLEA4_at_aol.com=20
  To: shauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com=20
  Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 11:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The big questions?


  In a message dated 30/08/02 17:54:06 GMT Daylight Time, =
shauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com writes:



    What it comes down to is this, how can anyone that can't study =
these rocks know for sure what they are. Say I purchased two different =
H4 meteorites and both look alike in most respects. How can anyone know =
its not the same stone with a different name pinned on it.


  Hi Shaun and all.
  I don't think anyone replied to Shaun's questions, so I'll have a stab =
at answering them.
  Regarding two different H4's that look the same visually, and how to =
tell that they're not from the same stone, the short answer to this =
is.....you can't!...at least, not easily!
  With a bit of collecting/dealing experience, you can get a "feel" for =
some named meteorites and know what to expect them to look like, but =
that's VERY far from being conclusive and not much better than an =
educated guess. Even electron microprobe and petrologic microscope might =
not be able to duplicate the original analysis exactly, and tell with =
100% certainty, precisely which named fall or find is under study.

  When buying meteorites, anyone should ask themselves how much faith =
they have in a dealer/seller, or ask other collectors for their opinions =
about them. Crap and bogus sellers don't tend to last very long in this =
game luckily, so anyone should be able to find out quite easily who to =
avoid.
  Major dealers often trade meteorites with museums & institutions, and =
when a trade completes there's a certain amount of documentation =
involved. Other times, deals might be closed with professional =
meteoriticists, but there's usually full TRACEABILITY in one form or =
another. Personally speaking, I don't (and won't!) start pulling out =
past trade documentation from the filing cabinet and wave them about =
just to prove something to a cautious buyer in order to close a sale, =
but I have them here safely.

  << How can I assure anyone who buys my product that this is the =
genuine article.>>

  It can take time - especially if this is the first time the buyer has =
ever considered buying a meteorite before, and perhaps only then because =
they chanced upon your website late one night while playing around with =
the search engines. Anyone with any common sense would surely find out a =
bit more about meteorites before parting with hard cash, but they will =
probably look to you as the expert and fire a load of questions at you. =
Don't blind them with science and talk of chondrules or stuff like that =
(not yet! ;-) )......if they are genuinely interested, pictures are =
probably the best place for them to start learning. Maybe tell them to =
look in their family encyclopaedia under "meteorites" and to check out =
the pictures of etched iron meteorites and cut stones. I have an old set =
of encylopaedias here that are almost as old as I am (41), but they have =
pages and pages of meteorite info & pictures which clearly match many =
iron & stony meteorites on the market today....sometimes, they ARE the =
actual meteorites on the market today!! Failing that, library books, the =
internet etc.
  Just don't give them the hard-sell routine, as it rarely works anyway.

  << you have to admitt, this is a funny market on meteorites. >>

  That's for sure!
  Some people I've met over the years are beyond convincing and will =
never fully believe that these chunks of stone & iron are genuine =
meteorites, no matter what I tell them. To some, it's all seems far too =
unlikely that private individuals can ever own a meteorite.
  Books help, especially those with pictures that clearly match up with =
the space rock you're holding in your hand alongside the page. Arm =
yourself with Richard Norton's new "Rocks from Space" and then let =
people make up their own minds during your next "show and tell" session =
:-)

  Cheers,
  Rob.
  www.meteorites.uk.com
  Fernlea Meteorites,
  The Wynd,
  Off Dickson Lane,
  Milton of Balgonie,
  Fife. KY7 6PY
  United Kingdom
  Tel: +44-(0)1592-751563
  Fax: +44-(0)1592-751991
  Mobile: 07909-773929
  Email: fernlea4_at_aol.com=20

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2519F.4DF2C180
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3314.2100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Shaun, Rob and rest of list,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>In regards to making a sale...what is the proper=20
(or&nbsp;recommended) protocol for sending identification with the =
reselling of=20
a given piece?.&nbsp; If John Doe buys from Dealer A who has a=20
reputable&nbsp;history and provides a card saying Dealer A's Meteorites =
or from=20
the Collection of Dealer A, what has&nbsp;more meaning: to resale with a =
new=20
card from John Doe's Meteorites, or to provide the old card from the =
long=20
standing Dealer A</FONT><FONT size=3D2>? I suppose it has more to do =
with=20
whether&nbsp;John Doe&nbsp;is trying to gain his own reputation as a=20
dealer&nbsp;or resaler (as Mike Blood suggests many of us are). If one=20
is&nbsp;just trying to unload some pieces on occasion, it may mean more =
to pass=20
on documention from the previous source. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Or, is it up to the new dealer/resaler John Doe to =
stand up=20
and say it is what it is, or&nbsp;should he wait some period of time to =
do=20
that&nbsp;until he gains trust in the collectors? I've seen it both =
ways, but=20
for new guys guys like Shaun and I, "what is the recommended=20
practice?"&nbsp;&nbsp; I plan on&nbsp;selling some of my collection this =
fall,=20
so I'm looking for advice.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>John Divelbiss</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:FERNLEA4_at_aol.com" =
title=3DFERNLEA4_at_aol.com>FERNLEA4@aol.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:shauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com"=20
  title=3Dshauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com>shauncdaniel@hotmail.com</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com"=20
  =
title=3Dmeteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>meteorite-list@meteoritecentr=
al.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 31, 2002 =
11:11=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [meteorite-list] =
The big=20
  questions?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT face=3DArial =
lang=3D0 size=3D2=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">In a message dated 30/08/02 17:54:06 GMT Daylight =
Time, <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:shauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com">shauncdaniel@hotmail.com</A>=20
  writes:<BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20
  TYPE=3D"CITE">What it comes down to is this,&nbsp; how can anyone that =
can't=20
    study these rocks know for sure what they are. Say I purchased two=20
    different&nbsp; H4 meteorites and both look alike in most respects. =
How can=20
    anyone know its not the same stone with a different name pinned on=20
    it.</FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D3=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
face=3DArial=20
  lang=3D0 size=3D2 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>Hi=20
  Shaun and all.<BR>I don't think anyone replied to Shaun's questions, =
so I'll=20
  have a stab at answering them.<BR>Regarding two different H4's that =
look the=20
  same visually, and how to tell that they're not from the same stone, =
the short=20
  answer to this is.....you can't!...at least, not easily!<BR>With a bit =
of=20
  collecting/dealing experience, you can get a "feel" for some named =
meteorites=20
  and know what to expect them to look like, but that's VERY far from =
being=20
  conclusive and not much better than an educated guess. Even electron=20
  microprobe and petrologic microscope might not be able to duplicate =
the=20
  original analysis exactly, and tell with 100% certainty, precisely =
which named=20
  fall or find is under study.<BR><BR>When buying meteorites, anyone =
should ask=20
  themselves how much faith they have in a dealer/seller, or ask other=20
  collectors for their opinions about them. Crap and bogus sellers don't =
tend to=20
  last very long in this game luckily, so anyone should be able to find =
out=20
  quite easily who to avoid.<BR>Major dealers often trade meteorites =
with=20
  museums &amp; institutions, and when a trade completes there's a =
certain=20
  amount of documentation involved. Other times, deals might be closed =
with=20
  professional meteoriticists, but there's usually full TRACEABILITY in =
one form=20
  or another. Personally speaking, I don't (and won't!) start pulling =
out past=20
  trade documentation from the filing cabinet and wave them about just =
to prove=20
  something to a cautious buyer in order to close a sale, but I have =
them here=20
  safely.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; How can I assure anyone who buys my product =
that this=20
  is the genuine article.</FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
lang=3D0 size=3D3=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">&gt;&gt;<BR></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D2 =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>It can take time - especially if this is the =
first time=20
  the buyer has ever considered buying a meteorite before, and perhaps =
only then=20
  because they chanced upon your website late one night while playing =
around=20
  with the search engines. Anyone with any common sense would surely =
find out a=20
  bit more about meteorites before parting with hard cash, but they will =

  probably look to you as the expert and fire a load of questions at =
you. Don't=20
  blind them with science and talk of chondrules or stuff like that (not =
yet!=20
  ;-) )......if they are genuinely interested, pictures are probably the =
best=20
  place for them to start learning. Maybe tell them to look in their =
family=20
  encyclopaedia under "meteorites" and to check out the pictures of =
etched iron=20
  meteorites and cut stones. I have an old set of encylopaedias here =
that are=20
  almost as old as I am (41), but they have pages and pages of meteorite =
info=20
  &amp; pictures which clearly match many iron &amp; stony meteorites on =
the=20
  market today....sometimes, they ARE the actual meteorites on the =
market=20
  today!! Failing that, library books, the internet etc.<BR>Just don't =
give them=20
  the hard-sell routine, as it rarely works anyway.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; you =
have to=20
  admitt, this is a funny market on meteorites.</FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000=20
  face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D3 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">=20
  &gt;&gt;<BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 =
size=3D2=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">That's for =
sure!<BR>Some=20
  people I've met over the years are beyond convincing and will never =
fully=20
  believe that these chunks of stone &amp; iron are genuine meteorites, =
no=20
  matter what I tell them. To some, it's all seems far too unlikely that =
private=20
  individuals can ever own a meteorite.<BR>Books help, especially those =
with=20
  pictures that clearly match up with the space rock you're holding in =
your hand=20
  alongside the page. Arm yourself with Richard Norton's new "Rocks from =
Space"=20
  and then let people make up their own minds during your next "show and =
tell"=20
  session :-)<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Rob.<BR>www.meteorites.uk.com<BR>Fernlea =

  Meteorites,<BR>The Wynd,<BR>Off Dickson Lane,<BR>Milton of =
Balgonie,<BR>Fife.=20
  KY7 6PY<BR>United Kingdom<BR>Tel: +44-(0)1592-751563<BR>Fax:=20
  +44-(0)1592-751991<BR>Mobile: 07909-773929<BR>Email: =
fernlea4_at_aol.com</FONT>=20
  </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2519F.4DF2C180--
Received on Sun 01 Sep 2002 10:06:56 AM PDT


Help support this free mailing list:



StumbleUpon
del.icio.us
reddit
Yahoo MyWeb