[meteorite-list] Eagle Butte - One more time

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From: magellon_at_earthlink.net <magellon_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:02:31 2004
Message-ID: <3C9A9B2A.B51D08A2_at_earthlink.net>

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>"We found no detectable Ni."
But, Mr. Keith (Eagle Butte) Crawford told me "(EB's were) Tested at the University of Calgary's Chem Lab. Some pieces were sent to Ontario for further intensive testing and have never heard anything else. Just basic elements were tested at the U of C. They came up with the composition 77% Fe 20% Ni and 3% other, rounding it off to 80 - 20." If he would lie about this do you suppose he (posing as his wife) would lie about some naughty relative pretending to be a museum board member?
Amazing,
Ken Newton

LabNEMS wrote:

> List:
>
> From a customer we received a sample of the material recently
> referred to and discussed on this list as Eagle Butte.
>
> Sample chemical analysis summary:
>
> The received material is porous and not homogeneous. There are varying
> proportions
> of FeO, MgO, Ca, Al, and Dolomite within "clumps". The terms "clast" and
> "breccias"
> are not used to define these concentrations as the boundaries are poorly
> defined.
>
> We found no detectable Ni.
>
> In our opinion this is ferrous slag similar to the iron slag used for
> road bases. (actually Canada is an important source of ferrous slag
> accounting for about 26% of USA imported needs)
>
> Bernd Pauli wrote:
>
> "Unfortunately there is no crater information in the 5th issue of the
> Catalogue. Those among us who still have access to the BBB (the
> Big Blue Book = 4th edition of the Catalogue) know that Eagle Butte
> is mentioned as a doubtful feature:
>
> A disturbed area, 10 km in diameter and 30-40 million years old, may be
> meteoritic, P.B. Robertson and R.A.F. Grieve, Journ. Roy. Astron. Soc.
> Canada, 1975, vol. 69, p. 1, but compare T.B. Haites and H. van Hees,
> Journ. Alberta Soc. Petrol. Geologists, 1962, vol. 10, p. 511. Bore
> holes and electric log data for the structure, H.B. Sawatzky in, Impact
> and Explosion Cratering, eds. D.J. Roddy, R.O. Pepin and R.B. Merrill,
> Pergamon Press (New York), 1977, p. 461."
>
> To Bernd's contribution I would add the work of Hodge and Sawatzky:
>
> "Eagle Butte, Alberta
> Lat/Long: N49 deg. 42', W110 deg. 30'
> Diameter: 19 km
> Age <65 Ma
> Condition: Eroded"
>
> "Eagle Butte is in the Cypress Hills area of southern
> Alberta (Canada). Cypress Hills Provincial Park occupies
> part of the eastern portion of the structure. The structure was
> recognized as a geophysical anomaly long before it was found
> to be an impact feature. Both surface geology and sub-surface
> information from wells support its identification as such."
>
> "The geophysical contours show a central uplift and a surrounding
> ring depression."
>
> "Meteorite Craters and Impact Structures of the Earth", Hodge, Paul,
> 1994, University of Cambridge Press.
>
> And
>
> "Two probable Late Cretaceous astroblemes in Western Canada:
> Eagle Butte, Alberta and Dumas, Saskatchewan". Geophysics, 41,
> 1261 - 1271"
>
> Is there existing meteoritic material associated with the Eagle Butte
> structure? I don't know. All that I can say for sure is that the material we
> received is not meteoritic.
>
> A word of caution:
>
> Some of the longer-term members of the List may remember
> our involvement with material that came to be referred to as
> the "Emerald Meteorite". (summary story about the "Emerald
> Meteorite", for those unfamiliar with it is at:
>
> http://www2.suite224.net/~editorsb/updates/meteorite.htm )
>
> Our chemical analysis showed it to be a foundry
> by-product, probably from the lining of a refractory kiln and not meteoritic.
> Some members may still have samples of this material in their collections.
>
> Legal consequences resulting from this were unpleasant. Fortunately
> Tim McCoy's (Smithsonian) independent analysis concurred with ours
> and the finders/promoters backed off.
>
> My point ( something I'm sure that many List members have experienced)
> is that it is sometimes very, very, difficult to convince someone
> untrained or unfamiliar with meteoritics that what they have is of
> terrestrial occurrence. If they choose a legal path it can become
> costly and uncomfortable for all. I find it far better in these
> circumstances,
> that when asked, to offer an "opinion" on the material rather than to
> speak in "absolutes" that may be heard as a denouncement.
>
> Everyone has an opinion but denouncements can get you sued.
>
> Of course, this is just my "opinion".
>
> Russ K./NEMS
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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>"We found no detectable Ni."
 But, Mr. Keith (Eagle Butte) Crawford told me "(EB's were) Tested at
the University of Calgary's Chem Lab. Some pieces were sent to Ontario
for further intensive testing and have never heard anything else. 
Just basic elements were tested at the U of C.  They came up with
the composition  77% Fe    20% Ni  and 
3% other, rounding it off to 80 - 20." If he would lie about this do you
suppose he (posing as his wife)  would lie about some naughty relative
pretending to be a museum board member?
 Amazing,
 Ken Newton
LabNEMS wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>List:
 From a customer we received a sample of the material recently
 referred to and discussed on this list as Eagle Butte.
Sample chemical analysis summary:
The received material is porous and not homogeneous.  There are
varying
 proportions
 of FeO, MgO, Ca, Al, and Dolomite within "clumps".  The terms
"clast" and
 "breccias"
 are not used to define these concentrations as the boundaries are poorly
 defined.
We found no detectable Ni.
In our opinion this is ferrous slag similar to the iron slag used for
 road bases.  (actually Canada is an important source of ferrous
slag
 accounting for about 26% of USA imported needs)
Bernd Pauli wrote:
"Unfortunately there is no crater information in the 5th issue of the
 Catalogue. Those among us who still have access to the BBB (the
 Big Blue Book = 4th edition of the Catalogue) know that Eagle Butte
 is mentioned as a doubtful feature:
A disturbed area, 10 km in diameter and 30-40 million years old, may
be
 meteoritic, P.B. Robertson and R.A.F. Grieve, Journ. Roy. Astron. Soc.
 Canada, 1975, vol. 69, p. 1, but compare T.B. Haites and H. van Hees,
 Journ. Alberta Soc. Petrol. Geologists, 1962, vol. 10, p. 511. Bore
 holes and electric log data for the structure, H.B. Sawatzky in, Impact
 and Explosion Cratering, eds. D.J. Roddy, R.O. Pepin and R.B. Merrill,
 Pergamon Press (New York), 1977, p. 461."
To Bernd's contribution I would add the work of Hodge and Sawatzky:
"Eagle Butte, Alberta
 Lat/Long: N49 deg. 42', W110 deg. 30'
 Diameter: 19 km
 Age <65 Ma
 Condition: Eroded"
"Eagle Butte is in the Cypress Hills area of southern
 Alberta (Canada).  Cypress Hills Provincial Park occupies
 part of the eastern portion of the structure. The structure was
 recognized as a geophysical anomaly long before it was found
 to be an impact feature. Both surface geology and sub-surface
 information from wells support its identification as such."
"The geophysical contours show a central uplift and a surrounding
 ring depression."
"Meteorite Craters and Impact Structures of the Earth", Hodge, Paul,
 1994, University of Cambridge Press.
And
"Two probable Late Cretaceous astroblemes in Western Canada:
 Eagle Butte, Alberta and Dumas, Saskatchewan". Geophysics, 41,
 1261 - 1271"
Is there existing meteoritic material associated with the Eagle Butte
 structure?  I don't know.  All that I can say for sure is
that the material we
 received is not meteoritic.
A word of caution:
Some of the longer-term members of the List may remember
 our involvement with material that came to be referred to as
 the "Emerald Meteorite".  (summary story about the "Emerald
 Meteorite", for those unfamiliar with it is at:
<a href="http://www2.suite224.net/~editorsb/updates/meteorite.htm">http://www2.suite224.net/~editorsb/updates/meteorite.htm</a>
)
Our chemical analysis showed it to be a foundry
 by-product, probably from the lining of a refractory kiln and not meteoritic.
 Some members may still have samples of this material in their collections.
Legal consequences resulting from this were unpleasant.  Fortunately
 Tim McCoy's (Smithsonian) independent analysis concurred with ours
 and the finders/promoters backed off.
My point ( something I'm sure that many List members have experienced)
 is that it is sometimes very, very, difficult to convince someone
 untrained or unfamiliar with meteoritics that what they have is of
 terrestrial occurrence. If they choose a legal path it can become
 costly and uncomfortable for all.  I find it far better in these
 circumstances,
 that when asked, to offer an "opinion" on the material rather than
to
 speak in "absolutes" that may be heard as a denouncement.
Everyone has an opinion but denouncements can get you sued.
Of course, this is just my "opinion".
Russ K./NEMS
______________________________________________
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
 <a href="http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list">http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list</a></blockquote>
</html>

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Received on Thu 21 Mar 2002 09:47:06 PM PST

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