[meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo impact - 17 February, 2325 BCE?

From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:50:30 2004
Message-ID: <20020427181518.51190.qmail_at_web11605.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello Alex -

As Marco's very racist belittling of the Native
American peoples was not done privately, I don't see
why I should simply sit and grin and take it. It is
an insult not only to the Maya and Zoque, it is an
insult to my own Huron and Monocan ancestors.

Additionally, by sharing with this list his complete
ignorance of these peoples' cultures, Marco left the
members of the list with an entirely inaccruate
conception of them at the time of both the Rio Cuarto
and Campo de Cielo impacts.

If and when Marco should ever choose to apologise for
the belittling tone he took in his message, I will
accept his apology.

ep

PS - By the way, Brenham was widely traded in North
America long before Europeans ever showed up.


--- Alex Crutchfield <alexc_at_oasispartners.com> wrote:
> Grondine, You are out of line to post this rank
> insult on the open meteorite
> list, as it violates list rules and common decency.
> You should have replied
> privately. Now you should apologise publicly.
> Alexander Crutchfield
> IMCA #5361
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine_at_yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 2:47 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo impact
> - 17 February, 2325 BCE?
>
>
> uhhh, Marco,
>
> Perhaps you want to play endless games about
> cultural
> artifacts and ethnicity, but I don't really have
> time
> for them here. I will note in passing that there are
> no migrations into the Maya and Zoque homelands
> between 2360 BCE (Rio Cuarto) and the later periods.
> If you have any information different, then please
> share it with us all.
>
> But this is really aside the point. Rio Cuarto has
> a
> 350 MEGATON hole in the ground, and wherever the
> Zoque
> (Olmec) and Maya ancestors were in this HEMISPHERE
> they felt its effects.
>
> Since as you admit the Maya and Zoque are not your
> fields of expertise, may I suggest that before you
> start telling everyone about those "primitve" Native
> Americans, and stating with such authority that of
> course they didn't have an advanced culture, sea
> going
> commerce, and wide trading networks, that just
> perhaps
> you might want to read up on their cultures if only
> a
> little bit?
>
> After all, opinions which are not based on evidence
> often are little more than guesses, and those
> guesses
> often throw more light on the guessor's
> pre-suppositions than the facts. Sometimes, for
> example, the guesses can reveal a real racist.
>
> As for background reading, a good source for an
> introduction to the area is my original survey of
> the
> area, the link to which I provided. It was posted to
> "anthropolgy in the news" site out of Texas A&M
> several months back, and it is quite likely that
> your
> meso-american colleagues upstairs read it.
>
> And please take a copy of your note and my reply
> with
> you when you go upstairs to visit them. I am quite
> sure they will enjoy reading it.
>
> I know I will.
>
> ep
>
> --- Marco Langbroek <marco.langbroek_at_wanadoo.nl>
> wrote:
> > E.P. Grondine wrote:
> >
> > > It must be remembered that the massive
> > > Rio Cuarto impact (350 megatons, 25 October,
> 2360
> > BCE)
> > > occured "near" to Campo de Cielo. Before the
> Rio
> > > Cuarto impact event, South America was populated
> > by
> > > culturally advanced peoples, who were killed by
> > the
> > > impact. These people would have been in trade
> > contact
> > > with both the Olmec and Maya.
> > >
> > > There is little doubt that the Maya were
> severely
> > > affected by the Rio Cuarto impact.
> > > and hence their interest less than 35 years
> later
> > > (2325 BCE) in the area they called "Matawil".
> >
> > Hi Ed,
> >
> > My apologies, I actually took your initial mail
> > serious and not as the joke
> > as it was intended to be. Maybe I did because
> > regularly this kind of posts
> > pop up which >are< meant to be serious by the
> person
> > posting it!
> >
> > At any rate I must have been sleeping when I hit
> the
> > reply button for my
> > earlier response. While noting the geographic
> > discrepancy, the 2500 year
> > chronological discrepancy (for the Maya: for the
> > Olmecs its a mere 1000
> > years) went completely unnoticed by me. Shame, now
> I
> > won't dare to face my
> > colleagues at the Meso-American department one
> floor
> > up in the building for
> > at least 5 days to come... Well, as an excuse, I
> am
> > of course a Palaeolithic
> > archaeologist, so Mayans and other meso-American
> > civilizations are not my
> > 'core business'...
> >
> > But would this not make great stuff for a scenario
> > for a sci-fied-up Indiana
> > Jones Movie? In which our hero enters a Maya
> pyramid
> > in search for a golden
> > statuette, which is the entrance to a time tunnel
> > transferring him from 1939
> > AD to 300 AD, the start of Maya civilization. That
> > time-tunnel is kept
> > operational by the Maya high priests (not so
> > peculiar, for those guys were
> > obsessed with time keeping and intricate calendar
> > systems), with the help of
> > some alien technology perhaps. They a.o. use it to
> > make a trading contact
> > over a gap of 2500 years with those Pampa indians
> in
> > Argentinia, at 2300 BC,
> > when the Campo de Cielo impact is imminent...
> > Our only problem for the scenario would be, how
> the
> > impact at 2325 BC all
> > affected this, or most notably the Maya. For they
> > simply could re-establish
> > contact by having their time-tunnel connect to a
> > moment just prior to the
> > event, isn't it? Hmmmm, let's see; maybe they
> > couldn't adjust the length of
> > their time tunnels? No, that won't work, because
> > with a fixed length they
> > could not transfer our Indy from 1939 AD to 300 AD
> > too....rats, and we
> > really can't leave Indy out.....! But wait:
> eerrrrr;
> > maybe they could get
> > connection only to moments in history for which a
> > very peculiar situation
> > existed, eerrrr, let's say: Venus had to be in
> > conjunction with the sun
> > while Jupiter was in the Pleiades or something
> like
> > that?! Would fit nice
> > with the Maya calendrical and celestial mechanics
> > obsession... Yes, that's a
> > solution alright....now let's see, where did I
> have
> > Steven Spielberg's
> > phonenumber......?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > - Marco
> >
> > ---
> > Marco Langbroek private:
> > marco.langbroek_at_wanadoo.nl
> > Leiden University work:
> > m.langbroek_at_arch.leidenuniv.nl
> > Faculty of Archaeology
> > P.O. Box 9515
> > http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek/
> > NL-2300 RA Leiden
> > The Netherlands
> >
> > "What seest thou else
> > In the dark backward and abysm of time?"
> >
> > William Shakespeare: The Tempest act I scene 2
> > ---
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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>
>
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Received on Sat 27 Apr 2002 02:15:18 PM PDT