[meteorite-list] Star of Bethlehem Was Two Brilliant Meteors

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From: Sterling K. Webb <kelly_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:48:55 2004
Message-ID: <3B91B5EF.CCEC10E2_at_bhil.com>

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Hi, Rhett and List,

 There is no distinction between astrologers and astronomers possible in the historical period we're talking
about. Even sixteen centuries later, Kepler made money by doing the horoscopes of important (and wealthy) people,
though he doubted horoscopy was anything but meaningless as soon as he formed the idea of the intrusion of physical
law into the heavens, and Kepler was really the first to do that. Even Newton spent far more time on alchemy and
astrology than he did on creating modern physics and the calculus. (Just think what he could have done if he'd
applied himself!)
 In the minds of the ancient astronomers, whether Jewish, Greek, Roman, Babylonian, or whatever --- Magian ---
the two activities, distinct to us, were one "science." Exactly what the "Magi" saw or were looking for is totally
unclear. Equally unclear is the origin of these particular Magians, since the Magians (of northern Persia, or Iran)
had already been an object of persecution by Zoroastrians for several centuries. What is clear is that we shall
never know, as what Magians survived that persecution were later wiped out by Christians, and the last survivors of
that were later wiped out by Muslims. Result: no more Magians.
 The Magi went to King Herod because they were seeking the birth of a new king; who better to ask than the
reigning king? Since Herod was a paranoid tyrant, he shrugged them off and then had them followed by secret agents
(so says Josephus). This is supposed to be the cause of what is traditionally known as The Massacre of the
Innocents. Herod's agents, like clumsy spies everywhere, could only give him the area the Magi visited, so Herod
killed all the local new-borns, gaining his sorry reputation for madness thereby.
 The identification of the Magi as "kings" reinforces the concept of their Persian origins. The Persian
aristocracy was not merely a privileged class, but required "royal" blood.Therefore, any Persian with money or power
claimed real or imagined royal descent. And, since anyone of the bloodline of a king was (potentially) a king
himself, there were many thousands of individuals in the former Persian Empire effectively claiming to be "kings;"
as the ancient Persian language makes no distinction between the term for "royal" and for "king."
 And Mark Miconi's right about the time of year. By the time that Rome became "officially" Christian, Romans had
been celebrating the Saturnalia, when families visited each other and exchanged gifts, for over 1000 years, making
"Christmas" about 2700 to 2800 years old. The year involved in the Biblical account of the birth has to be either 6
BC, 5 BC, or 4 BC, since the Kingdom of Judea was annexed as a Roman province in 6 BC, with King Herod as the Roman
governor, thus beginning Imperial taxation. And since Herod died in 4 BC, the birth can be no later than that. Most
historians favor the date 4 BC. (Does that mean that the Millenium was really in 1996? Who knew?) In that year, 4
BC, there was a major planetary multiple conjunction, remarked on by the Chinese and astronomers of other nations,
so the meteor theory seems unnecessary to me (unless you need the royalties from yet one more book, Patrick).
 There are plenty of other good candidates for the "Star." There was a nova near alpha Aquiliae which was visible
for more than 70 days in 5 BC, recorded by the Chinese (time of year not mentioned), for those who favor the "new
star" interpretation of the Biblical account, as well as a short apparition of a brilliant comet near Altair on
February 23, 4 BC. Hey, take your pick.
 Craig, the timing of Saturnalia varied during the course of Roman history. It began as feast days for Saturn
(December 17) and Ops (December 19). With the change to the Julian calendar, Saturnalia was on December 17 & 18;
Opalia on December 19 & 20. During the empire, Saturnalia was extended to a week in length (December 17-23); longer
with other holidays.
 Saturnalia was associated with Consualia, end of sowing season festival (December 15); Dies Juvenalis, Coming of
Age for Young Men (mid-December); the Feast of Sol Invicta, the Unconquered Sun, begun in 274 AD (December 25), and
derived from Mithraism; Brumalia, the Winter Solstice on the pre-Julian calendar (December 25); Christmas (December
25), when the Christians move Christ's birthday to this date in 336 AD; Janus Day and Beginning of Calendar Year
(January 1), begun in 153 BC, fell out of use, and was started again in 45 BC; and last, Compitalia, the blessing of
the fields rural festival (January 3-5).
 I think the right word for what happened is consolidation! Too damn many holidays. How you going to get anything
done? New Year's, for most historical eras, was always celebrated in the spring with the equinox until fairly
recently. That's something that trips up historians frequently. In England, the "year" started on March 25th until
well into the XVIIIth century AD, so that what we call January, 1751 was January, 1750, because 1751 didn't start
until March 25, 1751, and the day before would have been called March 24, 1750 in that era.

Sterling K. Webb
 -----------------------------------------------------------------

Rhett Bourland wrote:

> Let's not forget that the "wise men" were ASTROLOGERS not ASTRONOMERS.
> Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't astrology generally frowned upon by the
> jews? Also, weren't the wise men sent out to get information so that their
> leader could kill the mesiah that he was so afraid of? Also, if you really
> read the bible, it says that Jesus was a small child, not an infant, when
> the wisemen found him.
> Regards,
> Rhett Bourland
> www.asteroidmodels.com
> www.asteroidmodels.com\personal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Joe Mann
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 7:24 PM
> To: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Star of Bethlehem Was Two Brilliant Meteors
>
> The wise men had seen a mysterious light in the heavens upon that
> night when the glory of God flooded the hills of Bethlehem. As the light
> faded, a luminous star appeared, and lingered in the sky. It was not a
> fixed star nor a planet, and the phenomenon excited the keenest interest.
> That star was a distant company of shining angels, but of this the wise men
> were ignorant. Yet they were impressed that the star was of special import
> to them. They consulted priests and philosophers, and searched the scrolls
> of the ancient records. The prophecy of Balaam had declared, "There shall
> come a Star out of Jacob, and a Scepter shall rise out of Israel." Num.
> 24:17. Could this strange star have been sent as a harbinger of the
> Promised One? The magi had welcomed the light of heaven-sent truth; now it
> was shed upon them in brighter rays. Through dreams they were instructed to
> go in search of the newborn Prince.
>
> As by faith Abraham went forth at the call of God, "not knowing
> whither he went" (Heb. 11:8); as by faith Israel followed the pillar of
> cloud to the Promised Land, so did these Gentiles go forth to find the
> promised Saviour. The Eastern country abounded in precious things, and the
> magi did not set out empty-handed. It was the custom to offer presents as
> an act of homage to princes or other personages of rank, and the richest
> gifts the land afforded were borne as an offering to Him in whom all the
> families of the earth were to be blessed. It was necessary to journey by
> night in order to keep the star in view; but the travelers beguiled the
> hours by repeating traditional sayings and prophetic utterances concerning
> the One they sought. At every pause for rest they searched the prophecies;
> and the conviction deepened that they were divinely guided. While they had
> the star before them as an outward sign, they had also the inward evidence
> of the Holy Spirit, which was impressing their hearts, and inspiring them
> with hope. The journey, though long, was a happy one to them.
>
> You will see that in every place God works after the manner that He can
> best reach the people. When He came to reveal Christ to the Magi, He did
> not come to them as He did to the shepherds on the plains of Bethlehem. The
> wise men were reading the works of God in the heavens. "The heavens declare
> the glory of God," and God comes to them to educate them in the very manner
> that He could best reach them. He has a star, a wonderful star, to appear
> to them. Angels of God hover in the heavens in the shape of a star, and
> they see the star; and as they begin to understand that something strange
> is taking place, they begin to move, and the star moves before them.
>
> And the rest...as they say...is history. Wonderful, marvelous history!
>
> Joe Mann
> <www.steeple.tv>

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Hi, Rhett and List,
    There is no distinction between
astrologers and astronomers possible in the historical period we're talking
about. Even sixteen centuries later, Kepler made money by doing the horoscopes
of important (and wealthy) people, though he doubted horoscopy was anything
but meaningless as soon as he formed the idea of the intrusion of physical
law into the heavens, and Kepler was really the first to do that. Even
Newton spent far more time on alchemy and astrology than he did on creating
modern physics and the calculus. (Just think what he could have done if
he'd applied himself!)
     In the minds of the ancient
astronomers, whether Jewish, Greek, Roman, Babylonian, or whatever ---
Magian --- the two activities, distinct to us, were one "science." Exactly
what the "Magi" saw or were looking for is totally unclear. Equally unclear
is the origin of these particular Magians, since the Magians (of northern
Persia, or Iran) had already been an object of persecution by Zoroastrians
for several centuries. What is clear is that we shall never know, as what
Magians survived that persecution were later wiped out by Christians, and
the last survivors of that were later wiped out by Muslims. Result: no
more Magians.
     The Magi went to King Herod
because they were seeking the birth of a new king; who better to ask than
the reigning king? Since Herod was a paranoid tyrant, he shrugged them
off and then had them followed by secret agents (so says Josephus). This
is supposed to be the cause of what is traditionally known as The Massacre
of  the Innocents. Herod's agents, like clumsy spies everywhere, could
only give him the area the Magi visited, so Herod killed all the local
new-borns, gaining his sorry reputation for madness thereby.
     The identification of the
Magi as "kings" reinforces the concept of their Persian origins. The Persian
aristocracy was not merely a privileged class, but required "royal" blood.Therefore,
any Persian with money or power claimed real or imagined royal descent.
And, since anyone of the bloodline of a king was (potentially) a king himself,
there were many thousands of individuals in the former Persian Empire effectively
claiming to be "kings;" as the ancient Persian language makes no distinction
between the term for "royal" and for "king."
     And Mark Miconi's right about
the time of year. By the time that Rome became "officially" Christian,
Romans had been celebrating the Saturnalia, when families visited each
other and exchanged gifts, for over 1000 years, making "Christmas" about
2700 to 2800 years old. The year involved in the Biblical account of the
birth has to be either 6 BC, 5 BC, or 4 BC, since the Kingdom of Judea
was annexed as a Roman province in 6 BC, with King Herod as the Roman governor,
thus beginning Imperial taxation. And since Herod died in 4 BC, the birth
can be no later than that. Most historians favor the date 4 BC. (Does that
mean that the Millenium was really in 1996? Who knew?) In that year, 4
BC, there was a major planetary multiple conjunction, remarked on by the
Chinese and astronomers of other nations, so the meteor theory seems unnecessary
to me (unless you need the royalties from yet one more book, Patrick).
     There are plenty of other
good candidates for the "Star." There was a nova near alpha Aquiliae which
was visible for more than 70 days in 5 BC, recorded by the Chinese (time
of year not mentioned), for those who favor the "new star" interpretation
of the Biblical account, as well as a short apparition of a brilliant comet
near Altair on February 23, 4 BC. Hey, take your pick.
     Craig, the timing of Saturnalia
varied during the course of Roman history. It began as feast days for Saturn
(December 17) and Ops (December 19). With the change to the Julian calendar,
Saturnalia was on December 17 & 18; Opalia on December 19 & 20.
During the empire, Saturnalia was extended to a week in length (December
17-23); longer with other holidays.
     Saturnalia was associated
with Consualia, end of sowing season festival (December 15); Dies Juvenalis,
Coming of Age for Young Men (mid-December); the Feast of Sol Invicta, the
Unconquered Sun, begun in 274 AD (December 25), and derived from Mithraism;
Brumalia, the Winter Solstice on the pre-Julian calendar (December 25);
Christmas (December 25), when the Christians move Christ's birthday to
this date in 336 AD; Janus Day and Beginning of Calendar Year (January
1), begun in 153 BC, fell out of use, and was started again in 45 BC; and
last, Compitalia, the blessing of the fields rural festival (January 3-5).
     I think the right word for
what happened is consolidation! Too damn many holidays. How you going to
get anything done? New Year's, for most historical eras, was always celebrated
in the spring with the equinox until fairly recently. That's something
that trips up historians frequently. In England, the "year" started on
March 25th until well into the XVIIIth century AD, so that what we call
January, 1751 was January, 1750, because 1751 didn't start until March
25, 1751, and the day before would have been called March 24, 1750 in that
era.
Sterling K. Webb
 
<hr WIDTH="100%">
Rhett Bourland wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Let's not forget that the "wise
men" were ASTROLOGERS not ASTRONOMERS.
 Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't astrology
generally frowned upon by the
 jews?  Also, weren't the wise men sent out
to get information so that their
 leader could kill the mesiah that he was so afraid
of?  Also, if you really
 read the bible, it says that Jesus was a small
child, not an infant, when
 the wisemen found him.
 Regards,
 Rhett Bourland
 www.asteroidmodels.com
 www.asteroidmodels.com\personal
-----Original Message-----
 From: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
 [<a href="mailto:meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com">mailto:meteorite-list-admin@meteoritecentral.com</a>]On
Behalf Of Joe Mann
 Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 7:24 PM
 To: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Star of Bethlehem Was
Two Brilliant Meteors
     The wise men had seen
a mysterious light in the heavens upon that
 night when the glory of God flooded the hills
of Bethlehem. As the light
 faded, a luminous star appeared, and lingered
in the sky. It was not a
 fixed star nor a planet, and the phenomenon excited
the keenest interest.
 That star was a distant company of shining angels,
but of this the wise men
 were ignorant. Yet they were impressed that the
star was of special import
 to them. They consulted priests and philosophers,
and searched the scrolls
 of the ancient records. The prophecy of Balaam
had declared, "There shall
 come a Star out of Jacob, and a Scepter shall
rise out of Israel." Num.
 24:17. Could this strange star have been sent
as a harbinger of the
 Promised One? The magi had welcomed the light
of heaven-sent truth; now it
 was shed upon them in brighter rays. Through
dreams they were instructed to
 go in search of the newborn Prince.
     As by faith Abraham went
forth at the call of God, "not knowing
 whither he went" (Heb. 11:8); as by faith Israel
followed the pillar of
 cloud to the Promised Land, so did these Gentiles
go forth to find the
 promised Saviour. The Eastern country abounded
in precious things, and the
 magi did not set out empty-handed. It was the
custom to offer presents as
 an act of homage to princes or other personages
of rank, and the richest
 gifts the land afforded were borne as an offering
to Him in whom all the
 families of the earth were to be blessed. It
was necessary to journey by
 night in order to keep the star in view; but
the travelers beguiled the
 hours by repeating traditional sayings and prophetic
utterances concerning
 the One they sought. At every pause for rest
they searched the prophecies;
 and the conviction deepened that they were divinely
guided. While they had
 the star before them as an outward sign, they
had also the inward evidence
 of the Holy Spirit, which was impressing their
hearts, and inspiring them
 with hope. The journey, though long, was a happy
one to them.
You will see that in every place God works after
the manner that He can
 best reach the people. When He came to reveal
Christ to the Magi, He did
 not come to them as He did to the shepherds on
the plains of Bethlehem. The
 wise men were reading the works of God in the
heavens. "The heavens declare
 the glory of God," and God comes to them to educate
them in the very manner
 that He could best reach them. He has a star,
a wonderful star, to appear
 to them. Angels of God hover in the heavens in
the shape of a star, and
 they see the star; and as they begin to understand
that something strange
 is taking place, they begin to move, and the
star moves before them.
And the rest...as they say...is history. Wonderful,
marvelous history!
Joe Mann
 <www.steeple.tv></blockquote>
</html>

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Received on Sun 02 Sep 2001 12:30:41 AM PDT

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