[meteorite-list] [OT] Attempt to Ban Fossil Collecting in USA -- URGENT

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From: Michael Casper <Michael_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:48:11 2004
Message-ID: <002501c152d8$5df47540$0200a8c0_at_Domain>

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Go back to England.

 ----- Original Message -----=20
 From: geoking_at_notkin.net=20
 To: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com=20
 Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 11:45 PM
 Subject: [meteorite-list] [OT] Attempt to Ban Fossil Collecting in USA =
-- URGENT

 Dear Listees:

 I post the following information for three reasons:

 1) I know that -- like me -- many on the M-List are also fossil =
enthusiasts

 2) If this evil Bill is weaseled through, then meteorites may well be =
next

 3) I get really mad when people try this kind of jackboot enforcement =
in my country

 Briefly:

 Two groups who obviously have too much spare time on their hands =
(Society of Vertebrate Paleontologists and 'Save America's Fossils') are =
submitting a Bill next week which -- if passed -- will effectively end =
fossil collecting on public lands in the United States. It's bad enough =
that you can already be arrested for collecting vertebrate fossils on =
BLM land -- oh, and that is OUR land, by the way, yes owned by the =
people of the United States . . . except you can't do much on it without =
a permit.

 This new Bill proposes massive fines, JAIL TIME, confiscation of cars =
and tools, and other harsh penalties for people collecting fossils on =
public lands without a permit (i.e. anyone not deemed suitable to =
collect -- and you can guess who will and won't be deemed "suitable"). =
They might as well begin shooting people for fishing, and hand out hard =
labor sentences for folks caught camping on public land. These =
"concerned people" will not be content with ending fossil collecting in =
the U.S either. They hope to place import restrictions on fossils from =
other countries as well.

 It's in astonishingly poor taste to present a useless Bill like this, =
and waste Government time, when the U.S. facing an actual international =
crisis. For those who care about this sort of thing, please contact your =
Senators immediately, as attempts are being made to sneak this Bill =
through next week. I have an excellent model letter -- written by a =
respected paleontologist -- that I will be happy to provide to anyone =
who is interested (please contact me off-list).

 The following letters explain the situation in detail, and were =
written by the eminent paleontologist Neal Larson (discoverer of T.Rex =
"Sue," President of the American Association of Paleontological =
Suppliers, and V.P. of the Black Hills Institute), and Walt Lombardo of =
the Nevada Mineral & Book Company.

 Thanks for reading, please pass this along to interested parties, and =
please pardon the long OT post.

 Respectfully,

 Geoff Notkin
 www.paleozoic.org

 ****************************

 Dear AAPS members, Congressmen, Amateurs, and friends;

 URGENT

 I have just received a copy of the new proposed Bill for the =
protection of=20
 paleontological resources on Federal Land, in my office. We are making
 copies and will send you a copy if you desire, and will be willing to =
do=20
 something to fight. Please read over this letter that was forwarded to =
me=20
 from Larry Oliveria of Paleo-Ed Resources. Please read the well =
written and=20
 concise letter from Walt Lombardo, and contact your congressmen, and =
your=20
 fellow collectors. We must stand united to stop this horrible piece of
 legislation. It has not yet been introduced, and we may not have much =
time=20
 to act on this. I have Marion Zenker working full time on this now, =
and we=20
 need all of you to help also. Also forward this to anyone else that =
you=20
 think may help.

 You may contact Marion K. Zenker at marionz_at_bhigr.com, or call her at=20
 605-574-4289.

 Neal L. Larson=20
 President, AAPS

 ________________________

 October 5, 2001

 Dear Fellow Collectors and Dealers:

 I received an e-mail from a former coworker who now works for Nevada
 Senator Harry Reid (Democratic Senate Majority Whip) in Washington, =
DC.
 He said they wanted to get some comments from amateurs so here goes.

 The Society of Vertebrate Paleontology (SVP) and a group called Save
 America's Fossils for Everyone (SAFE) has persuaded members of the =
House
 and Senate to submit a bill next week which will make it illegal to
 collect almost all fossils from Public Lands. The PDF file containing
 the draft language of the bill is included as an attachment to this
 e-mail. To see the SVP position you can download the following online
 journal issue:

 http://www.vertpaleo.org/bulletin/178.pdf.=20

 You''ll need Adobe Acrobat Reader, and the pertinent pages are 7-10. =
SVP
 would even like to shut down fossil collecting in other countries,
 probably through import/export restrictions.
 A May 2000 position paper written by the Department of Interior (under
 the previous administration) can be downloaded at:

 http://www.fs.fed.us/geology/senate_report.htm

 The SVP and Department of Interior positions, which are reflected in =
the
 bill, are chilling. This legislation would criminalize the collection =
of
 fossils from Public Lands to all but a select few. To collect fossils =
on
 federal lands, one will have to get a permit, which will be issued =
only
 for research and educational purposes. All fossils collected would be
 property of the US Government, to be stored at a federally approved
 depository. A small amount of common fossils could be collected by
 amateurs under the conditions that they be for personal use only (NONE =
to
 be sold), must be dug with hand tools only with no significant=20
 disturbance, and that the federal land manager of the area must =
consent
 to amateurs collecting fossils on lands that they control. This last
 point means that amateur collecting would be a discretionary activity, =
to
 be determined by each of the hundreds of land managers for the BLM and
 US Forest Service (USFS).

 If this bill is passed, collection of fossils on Public Lands (i.e., =
BLM,
 USFS) for commercial purposes would be forbidden. If the value of
 the material is less than $1000, the crime would be a CLASS A
 MISDEMEANOR, if over $1000 then it is a CLASS E 0R CLASS D FELONY. =
Your
 automobile and collecting equipment could be confiscated, fines up to
 twice the damages are possible, as is jail time. Anyone who collects,
 encourages someone else to collect, sells, or buys a fossil collected
 illegally would be subject to these penalties. How will the BLM and =
USFS
 enforce this law? Probably through the FBI and Justice Department.=20
 Rather than looking for terrorists, bank robbers and murderers, =
Congress
 will have law enforcement set its sights on otherwise law abiding
 citizens who enjoy collecting fossils and those who currently sell =
them
 to universities, museums, teachers, collectors and children.

 It appears that the major museum and university paleontologists do not
 want amateurs (or worse, commercial dealers) collecting fossils. Its
 bad enough that most fossils are destroyed by weathering before anyone
 has a chance to find them, but now collecting will be limited to a
 handful of academic professionals with limited funding, limited staff,
 and a summer field season. Can you imagine the backlog of =
unidentified,
 uncataloged fossils which would pile up at museums and universities
 waiting for someone who has the time to examine them?=20

 One of the flaws of logic presented in this bill is the idea that the
 majority of fossils are rare.
 There are probably billions of fossils on Public Lands, at tens of
 thousands of fossil sites. How could the collecting of fossils by
 amateur and professional collectors significantly impact these sites?
 How many fossils from how many sites are actually being studied by
 academicians? How many millions of fossils will be lost due to
 weathering before they can be collected and preserved? Very few I'll
 wager. There are approximately 2,000 members of SVP, not all of whom
 would be accredited to collect if this bill was passed. There are over
 264 million acres of public land, at least half of which are covered =
with
 sedimentary rocks which potentially contain fossils. That would mean
 each of the 2,000 SVP members would need to collect and study 13,200
 surface acres before these fossils are lost to the elements. This is =
not
 going to happen! What is wrong with having well educated amateur and
 professional collectors find fossils, preserve them and possibly sell
 them to collectors and institutions?

 Apparently, the fact that many universities and museums have
 traditionally acquired fossils or fossil localities from amateur and
 professional collectors is ignored. As is the fact that many of the
 fossils bought and enjoyed by the public are collected by amateurs and
 professional collectors. How many children develop an interest in
 paleontology and the earth sciences after buying a fossil at a rock =
shop
 or gem & mineral show?

 If this bill passes, it would be illegal for members of a gem and =
mineral
 club to collect trilobites, petrified wood or brachiopods and sell =
them
 at a club booth, at a gem & mineral show or a flea market. =
Professional
 collectors could expect a federal SWAT team to visit them at their =
home
 or place of business (including gem & mineral shows). How will you =
prove
 that fossils legally collected on public lands were collected before =
the
 bill was enacted? This law would create tens of thousands of potential
 felons in gem and mineral clubs across America. The May 2000 =
Department
 of Interior report recommends:

 Future actions should penalize the theft of fossils from federal lands
 in a way that maximizes the effectiveness of prosecutions and deters
 future thefts. Penalties should take into account, among other =
factors,
 the value of the fossils themselves, as well as any damage resulting =
from
 their illegal collection. Future program strategies should emphasize
 education of federal managers, prosecutors, law enforcement personnel =
and
 the judiciary regarding the value of fossils and the techniques for =
the
 appropriate protection of fossil resources. (Page 9).=20

 If this bill passes because of collector and dealer apathy, you can be
 assured that a ban on the collection of mineral specimens, gold and
 lapidary materials will be soon to follow. Within a few years it will
 virtually impossible to collect any geologic object from the western
 United States. How will we interest a new generation of rockhounds, =
and
 what will become of the tens of thousands of adults and especially =
senior
 citizens who look forward to rockhounding in the wide open spaces? =
This
 bill is a serious threat to our hobby, and a further erosion of our
 rights. I strongly encourage you to write to your congressional
 representatives. I have included the following links to find the
 appropriate addresses of your congressmen:

 http://www.senate.gov/senators/index.cfm
 http://www.house.gov/

 Also, please send a copy of the letter, fax or e-mail to Sen. Harry =
Reid
 (D-NV) at:

 Senator Harry Reid
 528 Hart Senate Office Building
 Washington, DC 20510
 202-224-0492 - PHONE
 202-224-7327 - FAX
 harry_reid_at_reid.senate.gov

 Unfortunately, we do not have much time to mount a credible defense. I
 hope we can persuade our congressional leaders to reconsider this =
assault
 on our sensibilities. In your communications with your representatives
 you may want to use some of the points I have brought up in my letter.
 Please let them know how this bill will affect you. Be logical in your
 comments and show them that the majority of collectors are responsible
 citizens who do contribute to the body of paleontological knowledge.

 Sincerely;

 Walt Lombardo
 Nevada Mineral & Book Company=20

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Go back to England.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
 <DIV=20
 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black">From:=20
 <A href=3D"mailto:geoking_at_notkin.net"=20
 title=3Dgeoking_at_notkin.net>geoking@notkin.net</A> </DIV>
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A=20
 href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com"=20
 =
title=3Dmeteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>meteorite-list@meteoritecentr=
al.com</A>=20
 </DIV>
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Thursday, October 11, =
2001 11:45=20
 PM</DIV>
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: [meteorite-list] [OT] =
Attempt to=20
 Ban Fossil Collecting in USA -- URGENT</DIV>
 <DIV> </DIV>Dear Listees: I post the following information =
for three=20
 reasons: 1) I know that -- like me -- many on the M-List are =
also=20
 fossil enthusiasts 2) If this evil Bill is weaseled through, =
then=20
 meteorites may well be next 3) I get really mad when people try =
this=20
 kind of jackboot enforcement in my =
country Briefly: Two=20
 groups who obviously have too much spare time on their hands (Society =
of=20
 Vertebrate Paleontologists and 'Save America's Fossils') are =
submitting a Bill=20
 next week which -- if passed -- will effectively end fossil collecting =
on=20
 public lands in the United States. It's bad enough that you can =
already be=20
 arrested for collecting vertebrate fossils on BLM land -- oh, and that =
is=20
 OUR land, by the way, yes owned by the people of the United =
States . .=20
 . except you can't do much on it without a permit. This new =
Bill=20
 proposes massive fines, JAIL TIME, confiscation of cars and tools, and =
other=20
 harsh penalties for people collecting fossils on public lands without =
a permit=20
 (i.e. anyone not deemed suitable to collect -- and you can guess who =
will and=20
 won't be deemed "suitable"). They might as well begin shooting people =
for=20
 fishing, and hand out hard labor sentences for folks caught camping on =
public=20
 land. These "concerned people" will not be content with ending fossil=20
 collecting in the U.S either. They hope to place import restrictions =
on=20
 fossils from other countries as well. It's in astonishingly =
poor taste=20
 to present a useless Bill like this, and waste Government time, when =
the U.S.=20
 facing an actual international crisis. For those who care about this =
sort of=20
 thing, please contact your Senators immediately, as attempts are being =
made to=20
 sneak this Bill through next week. I have an excellent model letter -- =
written=20
 by a respected paleontologist -- that I will be happy to provide to =
anyone who=20
 is interested (please contact me off-list). The following =
letters=20
 explain the situation in detail, and were written by the eminent=20
 paleontologist Neal Larson (discoverer of T.Rex "Sue," President of =
the=20
 American Association of Paleontological Suppliers, and V.P. of the =
Black Hills=20
 Institute), and Walt Lombardo of the Nevada Mineral & Book=20
 Company. Thanks for reading, please pass this along to =
interested=20
 parties, and please pardon the long OT =
post. Respectfully, Geoff=20
 =
Notkin www.paleozoic.org **************************** De=
ar=20
 AAPS members, Congressmen, Amateurs, and =
friends; URGENT I have=20
 just received a copy of the new proposed Bill for the protection of=20
 paleontological resources on Federal Land, in my office. We are=20
 making copies and will send you a copy if you desire, and will be =
willing=20
 to do something to fight. Please read over this letter that was =
forwarded=20
 to me from Larry Oliveria of Paleo-Ed Resources. Please read the =
well=20
 written and concise letter from Walt Lombardo, and contact your=20
 congressmen, and your fellow collectors. We must stand united to =
stop this=20
 horrible piece of legislation. It has not yet been introduced, and =
we may=20
 not have much time to act on this. I have Marion Zenker working =
full time=20
 on this now, and we need all of you to help also. Also forward =
this to=20
 anyone else that you think may help. You may contact Marion =
K.=20
 Zenker at marionz_at_bhigr.com, or call her at =
 605-574-4289. Neal L.=20
 Larson President,=20
 AAPS ________________________ October 5,=20
 2001 Dear Fellow Collectors and Dealers: I received an =
e-mail=20
 from a former coworker who now works for Nevada Senator Harry Reid=20
 (Democratic Senate Majority Whip) in Washington, DC. He said they =
wanted to=20
 get some comments from amateurs so here goes. The Society of =
Vertebrate=20
 Paleontology (SVP) and a group called Save America's Fossils for =
Everyone=20
 (SAFE) has persuaded members of the House and Senate to submit a =
bill next=20
 week which will make it illegal to collect almost all fossils from =
Public=20
 Lands. The PDF file containing the draft language of the bill is =
included=20
 as an attachment to this e-mail. To see the SVP position you can =
download=20
 the following online journal=20
 issue: http://www.vertpaleo.org/bulletin/178.pdf. =
 You’'ll need=20
 Adobe Acrobat Reader, and the pertinent pages are 7-10. SVP would =
even like=20
 to shut down fossil collecting in other countries, probably through =

 import/export restrictions. A May 2000 position paper written by =
the=20
 Department of Interior (under the previous administration) can be=20
 downloaded=20
 at: http://www.fs.fed.us/geology/senate_report.htm The =
SVP and=20
 Department of Interior positions, which are reflected in the bill, =
are=20
 chilling. This legislation would criminalize the collection =
of fossils from=20
 Public Lands to all but a select few. To collect fossils on federal =
lands,=20
 one will have to get a permit, which will be issued only for =
research and=20
 educational purposes. All fossils collected would be property of =
the US=20
 Government, to be stored at a federally approved depository. A =
small amount=20
 of common fossils could be collected by amateurs under the =
conditions that=20
 they be for personal use only (NONE to be sold), must be dug with =
hand=20
 tools only with no significant disturbance, and that the federal =
land=20
 manager of the area must consent to amateurs collecting fossils on =
lands=20
 that they control. This last point means that amateur collecting =
would be a=20
 discretionary activity, to be determined by each of the hundreds of =
land=20
 managers for the BLM and US Forest Service (USFS). If this =
bill is=20
 passed, collection of fossils on Public Lands (i.e., BLM, USFS) for =

 commercial purposes would be forbidden. If the value of the =
material is=20
 less than $1000, the crime would be a CLASS A MISDEMEANOR, if over =
$1000=20
 then it is a CLASS E 0R CLASS D FELONY. Your automobile and =
collecting=20
 equipment could be confiscated, fines up to twice the damages are =
possible,=20
 as is jail time. Anyone who collects, encourages someone else to =
collect,=20
 sells, or buys a fossil collected illegally would be subject to =
these=20
 penalties. How will the BLM and USFS enforce this law? Probably =
through the=20
 FBI and Justice Department. Rather than looking for terrorists, =
bank=20
 robbers and murderers, Congress will have law enforcement set its =
sights on=20
 otherwise law abiding citizens who enjoy collecting fossils and =
those who=20
 currently sell them to universities, museums, teachers, collectors =
and=20
 children. It appears that the major museum and university=20
 paleontologists do not want amateurs (or worse, commercial dealers) =

 collecting fossils. Its bad enough that most fossils are destroyed =
by=20
 weathering before anyone has a chance to find them, but now =
collecting will=20
 be limited to a handful of academic professionals with limited =
funding,=20
 limited staff, and a summer field season. Can you imagine the =
backlog of=20
 unidentified, uncataloged fossils which would pile up at museums =
and=20
 universities waiting for someone who has the time to examine them?=20
 One of the flaws of logic presented in this bill is the idea =
that=20
 the majority of fossils are rare. There are probably billions of =
fossils=20
 on Public Lands, at tens of thousands of fossil sites. How could =
the=20
 collecting of fossils by amateur and professional collectors =
significantly=20
 impact these sites? How many fossils from how many sites are =
actually being=20
 studied by academicians? How many millions of fossils will be lost =
due=20
 to weathering before they can be collected and preserved? Very few=20
 I'll wager. There are approximately 2,000 members of SVP, not all =
of=20
 whom would be accredited to collect if this bill was passed. There =
are=20
 over 264 million acres of public land, at least half of which are =
covered=20
 with sedimentary rocks which potentially contain fossils. That =
would=20
 mean each of the 2,000 SVP members would need to collect and study=20
 13,200 surface acres before these fossils are lost to the elements. =
This is=20
 not going to happen! What is wrong with having well educated =
amateur=20
 and professional collectors find fossils, preserve them and =
possibly=20
 sell them to collectors and institutions? Apparently, the =
fact that=20
 many universities and museums have traditionally acquired fossils =
or fossil=20
 localities from amateur and professional collectors is ignored. As =
is the=20
 fact that many of the fossils bought and enjoyed by the public are=20
 collected by amateurs and professional collectors. How many =
children=20
 develop an interest in paleontology and the earth sciences after =
buying a=20
 fossil at a rock shop or gem & mineral show? If this =
bill=20
 passes, it would be illegal for members of a gem and mineral club =
to=20
 collect trilobites, petrified wood or brachiopods and sell them at =
a club=20
 booth, at a gem & mineral show or a flea market.=20
 Professional collectors could expect a federal SWAT team to visit =
them at=20
 their home or place of business (including gem & mineral =
shows). How=20
 will you prove that fossils legally collected on public lands were=20
 collected before the bill was enacted? This law would create tens =
of=20
 thousands of potential felons in gem and mineral clubs across =
America. The=20
 May 2000 Department of Interior report recommends: Future =
actions=20
 should penalize the theft of fossils from federal lands in a way =
that=20
 maximizes the effectiveness of prosecutions and deters future =
thefts.=20
 Penalties should take into account, among other factors, the value =
of the=20
 fossils themselves, as well as any damage resulting from their =
illegal=20
 collection. Future program strategies should emphasize education of =
federal=20
 managers, prosecutors, law enforcement personnel and the judiciary=20
 regarding the value of fossils and the techniques for =
the appropriate=20
 protection of fossil resources. (Page 9). If this bill passes =
because=20
 of collector and dealer apathy, you can be assured that a ban on =
the=20
 collection of mineral specimens, gold and lapidary materials will =
be soon=20
 to follow. Within a few years it will virtually impossible to =
collect any=20
 geologic object from the western United States. How will we =
interest a new=20
 generation of rockhounds, and what will become of the tens of =
thousands of=20
 adults and especially senior citizens who look forward to =
rockhounding in=20
 the wide open spaces? This bill is a serious threat to our hobby, =
and a=20
 further erosion of our rights. I strongly encourage you to write to =
your=20
 congressional representatives. I have included the following links =
to find=20
 the appropriate addresses of your=20
 =
congressmen: http://www.senate.gov/senators/index.cfm http://ww=
w.house.gov/ Also,=20
 please send a copy of the letter, fax or e-mail to Sen. Harry =
Reid (D-NV)=20
 at: Senator Harry Reid 528 Hart Senate Office=20
 Building Washington, DC 20510 202-224-0492 - =
PHONE 202-224-7327 -=20
 FAX harry_reid_at_reid.senate.gov Unfortunately, we do not have =
much=20
 time to mount a credible defense. I hope we can persuade our =
congressional=20
 leaders to reconsider this assault on our sensibilities. In your=20
 communications with your representatives you may want to use some =
of the=20
 points I have brought up in my letter. Please let them know how =
this bill=20
 will affect you. Be logical in your comments and show them that the =

 majority of collectors are responsible citizens who do contribute =
to the=20
 body of paleontological =
knowledge. Sincerely; Walt=20
 Lombardo Nevada Mineral & Book Company =
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