[meteorite-list] [OT] Attempt to Ban Fossil Collecting in USA -- URGENT

From: Michael Casper <Michael_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:48:11 2004
Message-ID: <002501c152d8$5df47540$0200a8c0_at_Domain>

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Go back to England.


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: geoking_at_notkin.net=20
  To: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 11:45 PM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] [OT] Attempt to Ban Fossil Collecting in USA =
-- URGENT


  Dear Listees:

  I post the following information for three reasons:

  1) I know that -- like me -- many on the M-List are also fossil =
enthusiasts

  2) If this evil Bill is weaseled through, then meteorites may well be =
next

  3) I get really mad when people try this kind of jackboot enforcement =
in my country


  Briefly:

  Two groups who obviously have too much spare time on their hands =
(Society of Vertebrate Paleontologists and 'Save America's Fossils') are =
submitting a Bill next week which -- if passed -- will effectively end =
fossil collecting on public lands in the United States. It's bad enough =
that you can already be arrested for collecting vertebrate fossils on =
BLM land -- oh, and that is OUR land, by the way, yes owned by the =
people of the United States . . . except you can't do much on it without =
a permit.

  This new Bill proposes massive fines, JAIL TIME, confiscation of cars =
and tools, and other harsh penalties for people collecting fossils on =
public lands without a permit (i.e. anyone not deemed suitable to =
collect -- and you can guess who will and won't be deemed "suitable"). =
They might as well begin shooting people for fishing, and hand out hard =
labor sentences for folks caught camping on public land. These =
"concerned people" will not be content with ending fossil collecting in =
the U.S either. They hope to place import restrictions on fossils from =
other countries as well.

  It's in astonishingly poor taste to present a useless Bill like this, =
and waste Government time, when the U.S. facing an actual international =
crisis. For those who care about this sort of thing, please contact your =
Senators immediately, as attempts are being made to sneak this Bill =
through next week. I have an excellent model letter -- written by a =
respected paleontologist -- that I will be happy to provide to anyone =
who is interested (please contact me off-list).

  The following letters explain the situation in detail, and were =
written by the eminent paleontologist Neal Larson (discoverer of T.Rex =
"Sue," President of the American Association of Paleontological =
Suppliers, and V.P. of the Black Hills Institute), and Walt Lombardo of =
the Nevada Mineral & Book Company.

  Thanks for reading, please pass this along to interested parties, and =
please pardon the long OT post.

  Respectfully,

  Geoff Notkin
  www.paleozoic.org

  ****************************

  Dear AAPS members, Congressmen, Amateurs, and friends;

  URGENT

  I have just received a copy of the new proposed Bill for the =
protection of=20
  paleontological resources on Federal Land, in my office. We are making
  copies and will send you a copy if you desire, and will be willing to =
do=20
  something to fight. Please read over this letter that was forwarded to =
me=20
  from Larry Oliveria of Paleo-Ed Resources. Please read the well =
written and=20
  concise letter from Walt Lombardo, and contact your congressmen, and =
your=20
  fellow collectors. We must stand united to stop this horrible piece of
  legislation. It has not yet been introduced, and we may not have much =
time=20
  to act on this. I have Marion Zenker working full time on this now, =
and we=20
  need all of you to help also. Also forward this to anyone else that =
you=20
  think may help.

  You may contact Marion K. Zenker at marionz_at_bhigr.com, or call her at=20
  605-574-4289.

  Neal L. Larson=20
  President, AAPS



  ________________________

  October 5, 2001

  Dear Fellow Collectors and Dealers:

  I received an e-mail from a former coworker who now works for Nevada
  Senator Harry Reid (Democratic Senate Majority Whip) in Washington, =
DC.
  He said they wanted to get some comments from amateurs so here goes.

  The Society of Vertebrate Paleontology (SVP) and a group called Save
  America's Fossils for Everyone (SAFE) has persuaded members of the =
House
  and Senate to submit a bill next week which will make it illegal to
  collect almost all fossils from Public Lands. The PDF file containing
  the draft language of the bill is included as an attachment to this
  e-mail. To see the SVP position you can download the following online
  journal issue:

  http://www.vertpaleo.org/bulletin/178.pdf.=20

  You''ll need Adobe Acrobat Reader, and the pertinent pages are 7-10. =
SVP
  would even like to shut down fossil collecting in other countries,
  probably through import/export restrictions.
  A May 2000 position paper written by the Department of Interior (under
  the previous administration) can be downloaded at:

  http://www.fs.fed.us/geology/senate_report.htm

  The SVP and Department of Interior positions, which are reflected in =
the
  bill, are chilling. This legislation would criminalize the collection =
of
  fossils from Public Lands to all but a select few. To collect fossils =
on
  federal lands, one will have to get a permit, which will be issued =
only
  for research and educational purposes. All fossils collected would be
  property of the US Government, to be stored at a federally approved
  depository. A small amount of common fossils could be collected by
  amateurs under the conditions that they be for personal use only (NONE =
to
  be sold), must be dug with hand tools only with no significant=20
  disturbance, and that the federal land manager of the area must =
consent
  to amateurs collecting fossils on lands that they control. This last
  point means that amateur collecting would be a discretionary activity, =
to
  be determined by each of the hundreds of land managers for the BLM and
  US Forest Service (USFS).

  If this bill is passed, collection of fossils on Public Lands (i.e., =
BLM,
  USFS) for commercial purposes would be forbidden. If the value of
  the material is less than $1000, the crime would be a CLASS A
  MISDEMEANOR, if over $1000 then it is a CLASS E 0R CLASS D FELONY. =
Your
  automobile and collecting equipment could be confiscated, fines up to
  twice the damages are possible, as is jail time. Anyone who collects,
  encourages someone else to collect, sells, or buys a fossil collected
  illegally would be subject to these penalties. How will the BLM and =
USFS
  enforce this law? Probably through the FBI and Justice Department.=20
  Rather than looking for terrorists, bank robbers and murderers, =
Congress
  will have law enforcement set its sights on otherwise law abiding
  citizens who enjoy collecting fossils and those who currently sell =
them
  to universities, museums, teachers, collectors and children.

  It appears that the major museum and university paleontologists do not
  want amateurs (or worse, commercial dealers) collecting fossils. Its
  bad enough that most fossils are destroyed by weathering before anyone
  has a chance to find them, but now collecting will be limited to a
  handful of academic professionals with limited funding, limited staff,
  and a summer field season. Can you imagine the backlog of =
unidentified,
  uncataloged fossils which would pile up at museums and universities
  waiting for someone who has the time to examine them?=20

  One of the flaws of logic presented in this bill is the idea that the
  majority of fossils are rare.
  There are probably billions of fossils on Public Lands, at tens of
  thousands of fossil sites. How could the collecting of fossils by
  amateur and professional collectors significantly impact these sites?
  How many fossils from how many sites are actually being studied by
  academicians? How many millions of fossils will be lost due to
  weathering before they can be collected and preserved? Very few I'll
  wager. There are approximately 2,000 members of SVP, not all of whom
  would be accredited to collect if this bill was passed. There are over
  264 million acres of public land, at least half of which are covered =
with
  sedimentary rocks which potentially contain fossils. That would mean
  each of the 2,000 SVP members would need to collect and study 13,200
  surface acres before these fossils are lost to the elements. This is =
not
  going to happen! What is wrong with having well educated amateur and
  professional collectors find fossils, preserve them and possibly sell
  them to collectors and institutions?

  Apparently, the fact that many universities and museums have
  traditionally acquired fossils or fossil localities from amateur and
  professional collectors is ignored. As is the fact that many of the
  fossils bought and enjoyed by the public are collected by amateurs and
  professional collectors. How many children develop an interest in
  paleontology and the earth sciences after buying a fossil at a rock =
shop
  or gem & mineral show?

  If this bill passes, it would be illegal for members of a gem and =
mineral
  club to collect trilobites, petrified wood or brachiopods and sell =
them
  at a club booth, at a gem & mineral show or a flea market. =
Professional
  collectors could expect a federal SWAT team to visit them at their =
home
  or place of business (including gem & mineral shows). How will you =
prove
  that fossils legally collected on public lands were collected before =
the
  bill was enacted? This law would create tens of thousands of potential
  felons in gem and mineral clubs across America. The May 2000 =
Department
  of Interior report recommends:

  Future actions should penalize the theft of fossils from federal lands
  in a way that maximizes the effectiveness of prosecutions and deters
  future thefts. Penalties should take into account, among other =
factors,
  the value of the fossils themselves, as well as any damage resulting =
from
  their illegal collection. Future program strategies should emphasize
  education of federal managers, prosecutors, law enforcement personnel =
and
  the judiciary regarding the value of fossils and the techniques for =
the
  appropriate protection of fossil resources. (Page 9).=20

  If this bill passes because of collector and dealer apathy, you can be
  assured that a ban on the collection of mineral specimens, gold and
  lapidary materials will be soon to follow. Within a few years it will
  virtually impossible to collect any geologic object from the western
  United States. How will we interest a new generation of rockhounds, =
and
  what will become of the tens of thousands of adults and especially =
senior
  citizens who look forward to rockhounding in the wide open spaces? =
This
  bill is a serious threat to our hobby, and a further erosion of our
  rights. I strongly encourage you to write to your congressional
  representatives. I have included the following links to find the
  appropriate addresses of your congressmen:

  http://www.senate.gov/senators/index.cfm
  http://www.house.gov/

  Also, please send a copy of the letter, fax or e-mail to Sen. Harry =
Reid
  (D-NV) at:

  Senator Harry Reid
  528 Hart Senate Office Building
  Washington, DC 20510
  202-224-0492 - PHONE
  202-224-7327 - FAX
  harry_reid_at_reid.senate.gov

  Unfortunately, we do not have much time to mount a credible defense. I
  hope we can persuade our congressional leaders to reconsider this =
assault
  on our sensibilities. In your communications with your representatives
  you may want to use some of the points I have brought up in my letter.
  Please let them know how this bill will affect you. Be logical in your
  comments and show them that the majority of collectors are responsible
  citizens who do contribute to the body of paleontological knowledge.



  Sincerely;

  Walt Lombardo
  Nevada Mineral & Book Company=20

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Go back to England.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:geoking_at_notkin.net"=20
  title=3Dgeoking_at_notkin.net>geoking@notkin.net</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com"=20
  =
title=3Dmeteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>meteorite-list@meteoritecentr=
al.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 11, =
2001 11:45=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [meteorite-list] [OT] =
Attempt to=20
  Ban Fossil Collecting in USA -- URGENT</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Dear Listees:<BR><BR>I post the following information =
for three=20
  reasons:<BR><BR>1) I know that -- like me -- many on the M-List are =
also=20
  fossil enthusiasts<BR><BR>2) If this evil Bill is weaseled through, =
then=20
  meteorites may well be next<BR><BR>3) I get really mad when people try =
this=20
  kind of jackboot enforcement in my =
country<BR><BR><BR>Briefly:<BR><BR>Two=20
  groups who obviously have too much spare time on their hands (Society =
of=20
  Vertebrate Paleontologists and 'Save America's Fossils') are =
submitting a Bill=20
  next week which -- if passed -- will effectively end fossil collecting =
on=20
  public lands in the United States. It's bad enough that you can =
already be=20
  arrested for collecting vertebrate fossils on BLM land -- oh, and that =
is=20
  <U>OUR</U> land, by the way, yes owned by the people of the United =
States . .=20
  . except you can't do much on it without a permit.<BR><BR>This new =
Bill=20
  proposes massive fines, JAIL TIME, confiscation of cars and tools, and =
other=20
  harsh penalties for people collecting fossils on public lands without =
a permit=20
  (i.e. anyone not deemed suitable to collect -- and you can guess who =
will and=20
  won't be deemed "suitable"). They might as well begin shooting people =
for=20
  fishing, and hand out hard labor sentences for folks caught camping on =
public=20
  land. These "concerned people" will not be content with ending fossil=20
  collecting in the U.S either. They hope to place import restrictions =
on=20
  fossils from other countries as well.<BR><BR>It's in astonishingly =
poor taste=20
  to present a useless Bill like this, and waste Government time, when =
the U.S.=20
  facing an actual international crisis. For those who care about this =
sort of=20
  thing, please contact your Senators immediately, as attempts are being =
made to=20
  sneak this Bill through next week. I have an excellent model letter -- =
written=20
  by a respected paleontologist -- that I will be happy to provide to =
anyone who=20
  is interested (please contact me off-list).<BR><BR>The following =
letters=20
  explain the situation in detail, and were written by the eminent=20
  paleontologist Neal Larson (discoverer of T.Rex "Sue," President of =
the=20
  American Association of Paleontological Suppliers, and V.P. of the =
Black Hills=20
  Institute), and Walt Lombardo of the Nevada Mineral &amp; Book=20
  Company.<BR><BR>Thanks for reading, please pass this along to =
interested=20
  parties, and please pardon the long OT =
post.<BR><BR>Respectfully,<BR><BR>Geoff=20
  =
Notkin<BR>www.paleozoic.org<BR><BR>****************************<BR><BR>De=
ar=20
  AAPS members, Congressmen, Amateurs, and =
friends;<BR><BR>URGENT<BR><BR>I have=20
  just received a copy of the new proposed Bill for the protection of=20
  <BR>paleontological resources on Federal Land, in my office. We are=20
  making<BR>copies and will send you a copy if you desire, and will be =
willing=20
  to do <BR>something to fight. Please read over this letter that was =
forwarded=20
  to me <BR>from Larry Oliveria of Paleo-Ed Resources. Please read the =
well=20
  written and <BR>concise letter from Walt Lombardo, and contact your=20
  congressmen, and your <BR>fellow collectors. We must stand united to =
stop this=20
  horrible piece of<BR>legislation. It has not yet been introduced, and =
we may=20
  not have much time <BR>to act on this. I have Marion Zenker working =
full time=20
  on this now, and we <BR>need all of you to help also. Also forward =
this to=20
  anyone else that you <BR>think may help.<BR><BR>You may contact Marion =
K.=20
  Zenker at marionz_at_bhigr.com, or call her at =
<BR>605-574-4289.<BR><BR>Neal L.=20
  Larson <BR>President,=20
  AAPS<BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________<BR><BR>October 5,=20
  2001<BR><BR>Dear Fellow Collectors and Dealers:<BR><BR>I received an =
e-mail=20
  from a former coworker who now works for Nevada<BR>Senator Harry Reid=20
  (Democratic Senate Majority Whip) in Washington, DC.<BR>He said they =
wanted to=20
  get some comments from amateurs so here goes.<BR><BR>The Society of =
Vertebrate=20
  Paleontology (SVP) and a group called Save<BR>America's Fossils for =
Everyone=20
  (SAFE) has persuaded members of the House<BR>and Senate to submit a =
bill next=20
  week which will make it illegal to<BR>collect almost all fossils from =
Public=20
  Lands. The PDF file containing<BR>the draft language of the bill is =
included=20
  as an attachment to this<BR>e-mail. To see the SVP position you can =
download=20
  the following online<BR>journal=20
  issue:<BR><BR>http://www.vertpaleo.org/bulletin/178.pdf. =
<BR><BR>You&#8217;'ll need=20
  Adobe Acrobat Reader, and the pertinent pages are 7-10. SVP<BR>would =
even like=20
  to shut down fossil collecting in other countries,<BR>probably through =

  import/export restrictions.<BR>A May 2000 position paper written by =
the=20
  Department of Interior (under<BR>the previous administration) can be=20
  downloaded=20
  at:<BR><BR>http://www.fs.fed.us/geology/senate_report.htm<BR><BR>The =
SVP and=20
  Department of Interior positions, which are reflected in the<BR>bill, =
are=20
  chilling. This legislation would criminalize the collection =
of<BR>fossils from=20
  Public Lands to all but a select few. To collect fossils on<BR>federal =
lands,=20
  one will have to get a permit, which will be issued only<BR>for =
research and=20
  educational purposes. All fossils collected would be<BR>property of =
the US=20
  Government, to be stored at a federally approved<BR>depository. A =
small amount=20
  of common fossils could be collected by<BR>amateurs under the =
conditions that=20
  they be for personal use only (NONE to<BR>be sold), must be dug with =
hand=20
  tools only with no significant <BR>disturbance, and that the federal =
land=20
  manager of the area must consent<BR>to amateurs collecting fossils on =
lands=20
  that they control. This last<BR>point means that amateur collecting =
would be a=20
  discretionary activity, to<BR>be determined by each of the hundreds of =
land=20
  managers for the BLM and<BR>US Forest Service (USFS).<BR><BR>If this =
bill is=20
  passed, collection of fossils on Public Lands (i.e., BLM,<BR>USFS) for =

  commercial purposes would be forbidden. If the value of<BR>the =
material is=20
  less than $1000, the crime would be a CLASS A<BR>MISDEMEANOR, if over =
$1000=20
  then it is a CLASS E 0R CLASS D FELONY. Your<BR>automobile and =
collecting=20
  equipment could be confiscated, fines up to<BR>twice the damages are =
possible,=20
  as is jail time. Anyone who collects,<BR>encourages someone else to =
collect,=20
  sells, or buys a fossil collected<BR>illegally would be subject to =
these=20
  penalties. How will the BLM and USFS<BR>enforce this law? Probably =
through the=20
  FBI and Justice Department. <BR>Rather than looking for terrorists, =
bank=20
  robbers and murderers, Congress<BR>will have law enforcement set its =
sights on=20
  otherwise law abiding<BR>citizens who enjoy collecting fossils and =
those who=20
  currently sell them<BR>to universities, museums, teachers, collectors =
and=20
  children.<BR><BR>It appears that the major museum and university=20
  paleontologists do not<BR>want amateurs (or worse, commercial dealers) =

  collecting fossils. Its<BR>bad enough that most fossils are destroyed =
by=20
  weathering before anyone<BR>has a chance to find them, but now =
collecting will=20
  be limited to a<BR>handful of academic professionals with limited =
funding,=20
  limited staff,<BR>and a summer field season. Can you imagine the =
backlog of=20
  unidentified,<BR>uncataloged fossils which would pile up at museums =
and=20
  universities<BR>waiting for someone who has the time to examine them?=20
  <BR><BR>One of the flaws of logic presented in this bill is the idea =
that=20
  the<BR>majority of fossils are rare.<BR>There are probably billions of =
fossils=20
  on Public Lands, at tens of<BR>thousands of fossil sites. How could =
the=20
  collecting of fossils by<BR>amateur and professional collectors =
significantly=20
  impact these sites?<BR>How many fossils from how many sites are =
actually being=20
  studied by<BR>academicians? How many millions of fossils will be lost =
due=20
  to<BR>weathering before they can be collected and preserved? Very few=20
  I'll<BR>wager. There are approximately 2,000 members of SVP, not all =
of=20
  whom<BR>would be accredited to collect if this bill was passed. There =
are=20
  over<BR>264 million acres of public land, at least half of which are =
covered=20
  with<BR>sedimentary rocks which potentially contain fossils. That =
would=20
  mean<BR>each of the 2,000 SVP members would need to collect and study=20
  13,200<BR>surface acres before these fossils are lost to the elements. =
This is=20
  not<BR>going to happen! What is wrong with having well educated =
amateur=20
  and<BR>professional collectors find fossils, preserve them and =
possibly=20
  sell<BR>them to collectors and institutions?<BR><BR>Apparently, the =
fact that=20
  many universities and museums have<BR>traditionally acquired fossils =
or fossil=20
  localities from amateur and<BR>professional collectors is ignored. As =
is the=20
  fact that many of the<BR>fossils bought and enjoyed by the public are=20
  collected by amateurs and<BR>professional collectors. How many =
children=20
  develop an interest in<BR>paleontology and the earth sciences after =
buying a=20
  fossil at a rock shop<BR>or gem &amp; mineral show?<BR><BR>If this =
bill=20
  passes, it would be illegal for members of a gem and mineral<BR>club =
to=20
  collect trilobites, petrified wood or brachiopods and sell them<BR>at =
a club=20
  booth, at a gem &amp; mineral show or a flea market.=20
  Professional<BR>collectors could expect a federal SWAT team to visit =
them at=20
  their home<BR>or place of business (including gem &amp; mineral =
shows). How=20
  will you prove<BR>that fossils legally collected on public lands were=20
  collected before the<BR>bill was enacted? This law would create tens =
of=20
  thousands of potential<BR>felons in gem and mineral clubs across =
America. The=20
  May 2000 Department<BR>of Interior report recommends:<BR><BR>Future =
actions=20
  should penalize the theft of fossils from federal lands<BR>in a way =
that=20
  maximizes the effectiveness of prosecutions and deters<BR>future =
thefts.=20
  Penalties should take into account, among other factors,<BR>the value =
of the=20
  fossils themselves, as well as any damage resulting from<BR>their =
illegal=20
  collection. Future program strategies should emphasize<BR>education of =
federal=20
  managers, prosecutors, law enforcement personnel and<BR>the judiciary=20
  regarding the value of fossils and the techniques for =
the<BR>appropriate=20
  protection of fossil resources. (Page 9). <BR><BR>If this bill passes =
because=20
  of collector and dealer apathy, you can be<BR>assured that a ban on =
the=20
  collection of mineral specimens, gold and<BR>lapidary materials will =
be soon=20
  to follow. Within a few years it will<BR>virtually impossible to =
collect any=20
  geologic object from the western<BR>United States. How will we =
interest a new=20
  generation of rockhounds, and<BR>what will become of the tens of =
thousands of=20
  adults and especially senior<BR>citizens who look forward to =
rockhounding in=20
  the wide open spaces? This<BR>bill is a serious threat to our hobby, =
and a=20
  further erosion of our<BR>rights. I strongly encourage you to write to =
your=20
  congressional<BR>representatives. I have included the following links =
to find=20
  the<BR>appropriate addresses of your=20
  =
congressmen:<BR><BR>http://www.senate.gov/senators/index.cfm<BR>http://ww=
w.house.gov/<BR><BR>Also,=20
  please send a copy of the letter, fax or e-mail to Sen. Harry =
Reid<BR>(D-NV)=20
  at:<BR><BR>Senator Harry Reid<BR>528 Hart Senate Office=20
  Building<BR>Washington, DC 20510<BR>202-224-0492 - =
PHONE<BR>202-224-7327 -=20
  FAX<BR>harry_reid_at_reid.senate.gov<BR><BR>Unfortunately, we do not have =
much=20
  time to mount a credible defense. I<BR>hope we can persuade our =
congressional=20
  leaders to reconsider this assault<BR>on our sensibilities. In your=20
  communications with your representatives<BR>you may want to use some =
of the=20
  points I have brought up in my letter.<BR>Please let them know how =
this bill=20
  will affect you. Be logical in your<BR>comments and show them that the =

  majority of collectors are responsible<BR>citizens who do contribute =
to the=20
  body of paleontological =
knowledge.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Sincerely;<BR><BR>Walt=20
  Lombardo<BR>Nevada Mineral &amp; Book Company =
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Received on Fri 12 Oct 2001 12:42:56 AM PDT


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