[meteorite-list] Stolen Meteorites

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From: GeneFred98_at_aol.com <GeneFred98_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:46:23 2004
Message-ID: <26.152edc18.282e0e3a_at_aol.com>

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Hi Francis and Dave,
 I usually don't get involved with most conversations on the meteorite list,
but I had a extra glass of wine tonight so here goes. It is interesting that
the Border guards in the USA are notified (I beleive by Low-jack?) as stolen
cars go over the border into Mexico but they do nothing about it. All it
would take is that every car must go through 2 stages in the crossing. If you
don't pass the first stage (the car identifies itself as stolen), then the
driver gets out and proves it is his car or walks into the jail cell. ( I was
surprised to hear that that they just let these cars go through (TV)).
 I believe Francis is right that Pawn shops or whoever should have the
legal obligation to have the seller prove that the item is theirs. This would
at least put a dent in the drug related thefts. If the person who has the
items stolen can show that the items were most likely theirs, the law should
put the items in question into a hold state until the person who sold them
can be checked out and a investigation can determine what is going on. This
would cost money for the government until the process evolves into a more
efficient method but to bad, government is the responsible? body or at least
the focus where laws are passed to straighten wrongful doings out.
 Any legal owner of property that needs to sell items should have no
problem showing that they are legal owners. If buyers were obligated to
obtain proof of ownership, then those without proof would have a smaller
market and there would be less incentative for those who steal. As buyers
get burned for not asking for proof of ownership, they would get out of the
market of buying stolen property.
 I am sending this to my congressional district representitive to show
where there is a need in straightening things out in and by the government.
(It is interesting that the Senators of this district don't have their email
available but rather have a form that you must fill out that "somehow"
contacts them). I have said "in and by" because I don't have time to create a
bill so all I can do is suggest to my representatives where there is a need.
I assume that since this is their full time job that they are more likely to
have the time to do this. :-) I will also copy this to the Senators...
 I think what is right is right, but takes a lot of effort to enforce. All
we can do as citizens is to do our best to change things into what is right
(in this case stolen property should not have a market )
Enough!!
 Good hunting...(By the way I saw a meteorite fall about 2 miles from where
I live about 4 months ago but have not been able to find the little? critter
yet...It was in a forest where lots of blackberries grow...I am going to try
a few more times but am starting to think the odds of finding this are slim.)
Talking to much...
Must go find meteorites....
Gene Frederiksen


In a message dated 5/11/01 7:36:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dfreeman_at_fascination.com writes:

> Dear Francis,
> I think this is a great idea, only....one would need to visibly etch a
> serial number into the side of the meteorite to register it and have the
> number on the title...ok, then, I was only kidding. Hell, we can't get
> a quorum for a meteorite dealers/hunters/collectors group. We have so
> many here that want things but refuse to liberalize their views to see a
> positive group end together on anything.
> With the no name NWA meteorites coming into the country, I doubt your
> idea goes any farther than something to offer off the cuff comments
> about. Cars have a serial number, but they are still swiped all too
> often, go figure!
> Justcuffy,
> Dave Freeman
>
> Francis Graham wrote:
>
> > Dear List,
> > A few years ago a Pittsburgh resident I knew had his
> > large CD music collection stolen. It ended up in a
> > used goods store. But, he was not legally allowed to
> > get them back, because the dealer had bought them in
> > "good faith" from the person who stole them. (The
> > actual thief was arrested and convicted). The CDs
> > however remained the property of the store.
> > At the Carnegie Library in Braddock, a large and
> > unique statue of Mercury was stolen. It ended up in
> > the store of an antique dealer in nearby Madison, PA.
> > The same legal argument held, although the dealer was
> > persuaded by the publicity to return the statue (at
> > his perogative)(and also he wished to avoid further
> > police work).
> > Suppose we change this law. Suppose it were
> > incumbent on the purchaser to go beyond good faith,
> > but to make a strenuous investigation of the title.
> > Failure to do that would mean that the stolen object
> > goes back to its original owner, no matter how long it
> > has been away. Is this a good idea or a bad idea?
> > Would this reduce the trade in stolen meteorites or
> > not? I can't decide.
> >
> > Francis Graham
> >
> >
>

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<HTML>Hi Francis and Dave,
   I usually don't get involved with most conversations on the meteorite list,
 but I had a extra glass of wine tonight so here goes. It is interesting that
 the Border guards in the USA are notified (I beleive by Low-jack?) as stolen
 cars go over the border into Mexico but they do nothing about it. All it
 would take is that every car must go through 2 stages in the crossing. If you
 don't pass the first stage (the car identifies itself as stolen), then the
 driver gets out and proves it is his car or walks into the jail cell. ( I was
 surprised to hear that that they just let these cars go through (TV)).
    I believe Francis is right that Pawn shops or whoever should have the
 legal obligation to have the seller prove that the item is theirs. This would
 at least put a dent in the drug related thefts. If the person who has the
 items stolen can show that the items were most likely theirs, the law should
 put the items in question into a hold state until the person who sold them
 can be checked out and a investigation can determine what is going on. This
 would cost money for the government until the process evolves into a more
 efficient method but to bad, government is the responsible? body or at least
 the focus where laws are passed to straighten wrongful doings out.
    Any legal owner of property that needs to sell items should have no
 problem showing that they are legal owners. If buyers were obligated to
 obtain proof of ownership, then those without proof would have a smaller
 market and there would be  less incentative for those who steal. As buyers
 get burned for not asking for proof of ownership, they would get out of the
 market of buying stolen property.
    I am sending this to my congressional district representitive to show
 where there is a need in straightening things out in and by the government.
 (It is interesting that the Senators of this district don't have their email
 available but rather have a form that you must fill out that "somehow"
 contacts them). I have said "in and by" because I don't have time to create a
 bill so all I can do is suggest to my representatives where there is a need.
 I assume that since this is their full time job that they are more likely to
 have the time to do this. :-)   I will also copy this to the Senators...
  I think what is right is right, but takes a lot of effort to enforce. All
 we can do as citizens is to do our best to change things into what is right
 (in this case stolen property should not have a market )
 Enough!!
  Good hunting...(By the way I saw a meteorite fall about 2 miles from where
 I live about 4 months ago but have not been able to find the little? critter
 yet...It was in a forest where lots of blackberries grow...I am going to try
 a few more times but am starting to think the odds of finding this are slim.)
 Talking to much...
 Must go find meteorites....
 Gene Frederiksen
     
 
 In a message dated 5/11/01 7:36:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
 dfreeman_at_fascination.com writes:
 
 
 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Dear Francis,
 I think this is a great idea, only....one would need to visibly etch a
 serial number into the side of the meteorite to register it and have the
 number on the title...ok, then, I was only kidding.  Hell, we can't get
 a quorum for a meteorite dealers/hunters/collectors group.  We have so
 many here that want things but refuse to liberalize their views to see a
 positive group end together on anything.
 With the no name NWA meteorites coming into the country, I doubt your
 idea goes any farther than something to offer off the cuff comments
 about.  Cars have a serial number, but they are still swiped all too
 often, go figure!
 Justcuffy,
 Dave Freeman
 
 Francis Graham wrote:
 
 > Dear List,
 >   A few years ago a Pittsburgh resident I knew had his
 > large CD music collection stolen. It ended up in a
 > used goods store. But, he was not legally allowed to
 > get them back, because the dealer had bought them in
 > "good faith" from the person who stole them. (The
 > actual thief was arrested and convicted). The CDs
 > however remained the property of the store.
 >   At the Carnegie Library in Braddock, a large and
 > unique statue of Mercury was stolen. It ended up in
 > the store of an antique dealer in nearby Madison, PA.
 > The same legal argument held, although the dealer was
 > persuaded by the publicity to return the statue (at
 > his perogative)(and also he wished to avoid further
 > police work).
 >   Suppose we change this law. Suppose it were
 > incumbent on the purchaser to go beyond good faith,
 > but to make a strenuous investigation of the title.
 > Failure to do that would mean that the stolen object
 > goes back to its original owner, no matter how long it
 > has been away. Is this a good idea or a bad idea?
 > Would this reduce the trade in stolen meteorites or
 > not? I can't decide.
 >
 > Francis Graham
 >
 >
 </BLOCKQUOTE>
 
 </HTML>

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Received on Fri 11 May 2001 11:55:38 PM PDT

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