[meteorite-list] Re: facing history - Slashing Meteorites
From: Jim <Jim_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:44:35 2004 Message-ID: <002b01c0a28d$83c9c1e0$c75f32d0_at_b1vb901> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C0A263.9A538240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Michel Franco!!!! It is so refreshing to hear that even other lucky meteorite = hunters/buyers believe that our Lunar meteorite is the most beautiful = found so far. Thank you so very much for the compliment. We are very proud. The = people who invested in our trip are very happy also. For those of you who would like to gaze upon this exquisite, oriented = Lunar meteorite again before the cutting please follow this link: http://www.nwa482.com It is so special it even has it's own URL !!!! Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 Catch a Falling Star Meteorites http://www.catchafallingstar.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michel Franco=20 To: Mike Farmer=20 Cc: METEORITELIST=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 2:07 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: facing history ( was Hunting scams) History will rember that Mike Farmer as salshed into slices a = wondefull unique oriented lunar meteorite, that Franco was not happy = with that fact and expressed it. History will also remember that the Francos have found Dag 565 a = primitive achondrite still unclassiifed (analysis started in 1998) that = might prove something for both ureilites and winonaites parent bodies. And perhaps you Mike Framer will rember when I expalined how = emotionnal was for both of us to find a meteorite from the ground. = Emotion, heard of it ? Best wishes Michel FRANCO 100 Chemin des Camp=E8nes 74400 CHAMONIX - FRANCE ----- Message d'origine -----=20 De : Mike Farmer=20 =C0 : Michel Franco=20 Cc : MeteorHntr_at_aol.com ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com=20 Envoy=E9 : jeudi 1 mars 2001 16:39 Objet : Hunting scams=20 Why would you Care? How would you know who I bought my rock from if = you never bought any meteorites in Morocco? Mr. Franco, it seems that = you know the dealers but you never deal with them?=20 Don't worry about how I pay for my trips, is it your business? you = say you only find, but I have a very hard tome believing that. All I = keep hearing from you and others is that you only search, ALL I keep = hearing from the Moroccans is that the "Hunters" buy, = HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM=20 And I keep getting shit from the French (several different people) = that I should not go to Morocco, that it is "their territory" If none of = you buy, then it matters not if I buy there. You may believe in the = inherent goodness of mankind, I believe what I see, and that is the some = serious BULLSHIT has been passed of to us all in the last 4 years by = some people. What do the Moroccans have to gain or lose by telling us = that the French and some Germans buy from them? Why do you think that = they make this up. And when I say French, it is simply to avoid saying = the long list of names that I have who buy there. Just tell me why they = might spout off all of these names, if it is not true. Why do you think = that they lie? What do they gain, do you think I pay more if they tell = me that many French "Hunters" buy barrels of meteorites?=20 As far as my stone goes, rest assured that proper payment has been = and is still under way for those who helped us. We paid dearly for a = stone which we did not know the type. When I bought items that turned = out to be non meteoritic, I was told "Too bad" this is business" Take = your chance. Well, we did with this one, and we hit pay dirt. So they = took their chance, they sold it for over 10 to 20 YEARS salary for an = average Moroccan, and they were quite happy,=20 now I am happy too. Why can't you be, instead of getting pissed and = giving me shit.=20 It seems that the only people who are not happy for us are A, the = FRENCH HUNTERS, why? If they are hunters, then they do not buy, this = stone was bought, so it would not have fallen into their hands in the = first place as they say that they DO NOT BUY. So I am seeing some = interesting contradictions here, if you don't buy, and you only hunt, = then you would NEVER have got this stone.=20 Or is it that you hunt, and you also buy the RARE ONES?=20 The plot thickens on the entire "Hunting thing".=20 Does this make sense?=20 I would like feedback from the list, if these people only hunt, why = are they pissed that I BOUGHT a certain stone?=20 Mike Farmer=20 Michel Franco wrote:=20 Farmer wrote<I do not doubt it, but after the Dar al Gani mars = rocks, it would seem that some dishonesty was occuring there, popping = out a new piece every few months, as though they did not recognize it = from the start as the same damn thing.=20 Mike Farmer > Seems that he should go in some easy places like DaG = and prospect himself. he will certainly find all his meteorites on the = same day. When some one see dishonest people everywhere, I feel = unconfortable. I m a Rouseauist: mankind is good, with few exceptions, = very few! I tried to explain one to Mike Farmer that Dag 476 and Dag 494 = were not found by the same team. And that all other Dag SNC were found = during separate expeditions.I never received any comment about that = point. Mike you should go back yourself to the hunring field, and pick = them up yourself without any backers for your trips. $10 per gram was = great deal, I hope you have already sent a large reward to Ahmed Amouri. = My two crusts. Michel FRANCO=20 MeteorHntr_at_aol.com wrote:=20 =20 In a message dated 2/28/01 1:44:23 PM Central Standard Time, = GShanos_at_aol.com=20 writes:=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Dear List Members:=20 What is the official word? Are all the Dhofar's 025, 026 an = 081 paired?=20 Look forward to hearing from everyone.=20 Sincerely=20 Greg Shanos =20 =20 Hello Greg,=20 I have both he 025 and the 026 for sale and there is nothing = remotely similar=20 to them.=20 With the Dhofar specimens, there is honest reporting of all = the details of=20 the find; such as the date of find, exact longitude and = latitude of the=20 finds, accurate TKW info and the like. Also, these specimens = have been found=20 by professional meteorite hunters and not simply gathered by = nomads and then=20 run through a system of handlers before brought to market like = most of the=20 NWA specimens. This is not to be meant as a "slam" against = the NWA's; I have=20 sold a few NWA's myself and I will sell more in the future, it = is simply a=20 statement of fact.=20 I think Mike Farmer has been the most open about explaining = the state of=20 meteorite affairs in Morocco. It is important to know = however, the Dhofar=20 situation is far from like that.=20 While much of a meteorite's value should stand on what type of = a meteorite it=20 is, not based on the exact location where it was found; one = very important=20 consideration in determining a potential value is the Total = Known Weight=20 found. It might be easy to figure out that all (or at least = most all) of the=20 EH3 specimen found in the Sahara will (or should be) paired, = it is next to=20 impossible to know if your Saharan H5 specimen is one of a a = thousand stones=20 from one fall, or if it might be the entire mass of a fall. = Or you might not=20 know if next week a new fragment for the same fall of your new = achondrite=20 might increase the TKW by 10 fold.=20 Thoughts to consider.=20 As to the details of your specific question about pairing, you = can find a lot=20 of great information at Washington University's site here:=20 http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/moon_meteorites.html=20 I hope this helps.=20 Steve=20 Steve Arnold ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C0A263.9A538240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> <DIV>Thank you Michel Franco!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is so refreshing to hear that even other lucky meteorite = hunters/buyers=20 believe that our Lunar meteorite is the most beautiful found so = far.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you so very much for the compliment. We are very = proud. =20 The people who invested in our trip are very happy also.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For those of you who would like to gaze upon this exquisite,=20 oriented Lunar meteorite again before the cutting please follow = this=20 link:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href=3D"http://www.nwa482.com">http://www.nwa482.com</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is so special it even has it's own URL !!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV>Jim Strope<BR>421 Fourth Street<BR>Glen Dale, WV 26038</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Catch a Falling Star Meteorites<BR><A=20 href=3D"http://www.catchafallingstar.com">http://www.catchafallingstar.co= m</A><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DMICH-FRANCO_at_wanadoo.fr = href=3D"mailto:MICH-FRANCO_at_wanadoo.fr">Michel=20 Franco</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dfarmerm_at_concentric.net=20 href=3D"mailto:farmerm_at_concentric.net">Mike Farmer</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A=20 title=3Dmeteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com=20 href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com">METEORITELIST</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 01, 2001 = 2:07=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [meteorite-list] Re: = facing=20 history ( was Hunting scams)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>History will rember that Mike Farmer as salshed = into slices=20 a wondefull unique oriented lunar meteorite, that Franco was not happy = with=20 that fact and expressed it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>History will also remember that the Francos have = found Dag=20 565 a primitive achondrite still unclassiifed (analysis started in = 1998) that=20 might prove something for both ureilites and winonaites parent=20 bodies.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>And perhaps you Mike Framer will rember when I = expalined how=20 emotionnal was for both of us to find a meteorite from the = ground.=20 Emotion, heard of it ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Best wishes</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Michel FRANCO<BR>100 Chemin des Camp=E8nes<BR>74400 CHAMONIX - = FRANCE</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Message d'origine ----- </DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>De=20 :</B> <A title=3Dfarmerm_at_concentric.net=20 href=3D"mailto:farmerm_at_concentric.net">Mike Farmer</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>=C0 :</B> <A = title=3DMICH-FRANCO_at_wanadoo.fr=20 href=3D"mailto:MICH-FRANCO_at_wanadoo.fr">Michel Franco</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc :</B> <A = title=3DMeteorHntr_at_aol.com=20 href=3D"mailto:MeteorHntr_at_aol.com">MeteorHntr@aol.com</A> ; <A=20 title=3Dmeteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com">meteorite-list@meteor= itecentral.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Envoy=E9 :</B> jeudi 1 mars = 2001=20 16:39</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Objet :</B> Hunting scams </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Why would you Care? How would you know who I bought = my rock=20 from if you never bought any meteorites in Morocco? Mr. Franco, it = seems=20 that you know the dealers but you never deal with them? <BR>Don't = worry=20 about how I pay for my trips, is it your business? you say you only = find,=20 but I have a very hard tome believing that. All I keep hearing from = you and=20 others is that you only search, ALL I keep hearing from the = Moroccans is=20 that the "Hunters" buy,=20 HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM <BR>And I keep getting = shit from=20 the French (several different people) that I should not go to = Morocco, that=20 it is "their territory" If none of you buy, then it matters not if I = buy=20 there. You may believe in the inherent goodness of mankind, I = believe what I=20 see, and that is the some serious BULLSHIT has been passed of to us = all in=20 the last 4 years by some people. What do the Moroccans have to gain = or lose=20 by telling us that the French and some Germans buy from them? Why do = you=20 think that they make this up. And when I say French, it is simply to = avoid=20 saying the long list of names that I have who buy there. Just tell = me why=20 they might spout off all of these names, if it is not true. Why do = you think=20 that they lie? What do they gain, do you think I pay more if they = tell me=20 that many French "Hunters" buy barrels of meteorites?=20 <P>As far as my stone goes, rest assured that proper payment has = been and is=20 still under way for those who helped us. We paid dearly for a stone = which we=20 did not know the type. When I bought items that turned out to be non = meteoritic, I was told "Too bad" this is business" Take your chance. = Well,=20 we did with this one, and we hit pay dirt. So they took their = chance, they=20 sold it for over 10 to 20 YEARS salary for an average Moroccan, and = they=20 were quite happy, <BR>now I am happy too. Why can't you be, instead = of=20 getting pissed and giving me shit. <BR>It seems that the only people = who are=20 not happy for us are A, the FRENCH HUNTERS, why? If they are = hunters, then=20 they do not buy, this stone was bought, so it would not have fallen = into=20 their hands in the first place as they say that they DO NOT BUY. So = I am=20 seeing some interesting contradictions here, if you don't buy, and = you only=20 hunt, then you would NEVER have got this stone. <BR>Or is it that = you hunt,=20 and you also buy the RARE ONES? <BR>The plot thickens on the entire = "Hunting=20 thing". <BR>Does this make sense? <BR>I would like feedback from the = list,=20 if these people only hunt, why are they pissed that I BOUGHT a = certain=20 stone? <BR>Mike Farmer=20 <P>Michel Franco wrote:=20 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"> <STYLE></STYLE> <FONT size=3D-1>Farmer wrote</FONT><FONT size=3D-1><I do not = doubt it, but=20 after the Dar al Gani mars rocks, it would seem that some = dishonesty was=20 occuring there, popping out a new piece every few months, as = though they=20 did not recognize it from the start as the same damn thing.</FONT> = <BR><FONT size=3D-1>Mike Farmer ></FONT> <FONT = size=3D-1>Seems that he=20 should go in some easy places like DaG and prospect himself. he = will=20 certainly find all his meteorites on the same day. When some one = see=20 dishonest people everywhere, I feel unconfortable. I m a = Rouseauist:=20 mankind is good, with few exceptions, very few!</FONT> <FONT=20 size=3D-1>I tried to explain one to Mike Farmer that Dag 476 and = Dag 494=20 were not found by the same team. And that all other Dag SNC were = found=20 during separate expeditions.</FONT><FONT size=3D-1>I never = received any=20 comment about that point.</FONT> <FONT size=3D-1>Mike you = should go=20 back yourself to the hunring field, and pick them up yourself = without any=20 backers for your trips. $10 per gram was great deal, I hope you = have=20 already sent a large reward to Ahmed Amouri.</FONT> <FONT = size=3D-1>My=20 two crusts.</FONT> <FONT size=3D-1>Michel FRANCO</FONT>=20 <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:MeteorHntr_at_aol.com">MeteorHntr@aol.com</A> wrote: = <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"> =20 <P><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>In a message = dated 2/28/01=20 1:44:23 PM Central Standard Time, = GShanos_at_aol.com</FONT></FONT>=20 <BR><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT = size=3D-1>writes:</FONT></FONT>=20 <BR> <BR> <BR> =20 <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20 TYPE=3D"CITE"><BR> <BR> <BR> =20 <P><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>Dear List=20 Members:</FONT></FONT>=20 <P><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>What is the = official=20 word? Are all the Dhofar's 025, 026 an 081=20 paired?</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT = size=3D-1>Look forward to hearing from = everyone.</FONT></FONT>=20 <P><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT = size=3D-1>Sincerely</FONT></FONT>=20 <BR><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>Greg=20 Shanos</FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> =20 <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT = size=3D-1>Hello=20 Greg,</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20 <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>I = have both he=20 025 and the 026 for sale and there is nothing remotely=20 similar</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>to them.</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20 <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT = size=3D-1>With the Dhofar=20 specimens, there is honest reporting of all the details=20 of</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT = color=3D#000000><FONT=20 size=3D-1>the find; such as the date of find, exact longitude = and=20 latitude of the</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT = face=3DArial><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>finds, accurate TKW info and = the=20 like. Also, these specimens have been = found</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20 <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT = size=3D-1>by professional=20 meteorite hunters and not simply gathered by nomads and=20 then</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>run through a system of = handlers before=20 brought to market like most of the</FONT></FONT></FONT> = <BR><FONT=20 face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>NWA = specimens. This=20 is not to be meant as a "slam" against the NWA's; I=20 have</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>sold a few NWA's myself and I = will sell=20 more in the future, it is simply a</FONT></FONT></FONT> = <BR><FONT=20 face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>statement = of=20 fact.</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20 <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>I = think Mike=20 Farmer has been the most open about explaining the state=20 of</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT = color=3D#000000><FONT=20 size=3D-1>meteorite affairs in Morocco. It is important = to know=20 however, the Dhofar</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT = face=3DArial><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>situation is far from like=20 that.</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20 <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT = size=3D-1>While much of a=20 meteorite's value should stand on what type of a meteorite=20 it</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT = color=3D#000000><FONT=20 size=3D-1>is, not based on the exact location where it was = found; one=20 very important</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT = face=3DArial><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>consideration in determining a = potential=20 value is the Total Known Weight</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT = face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT = size=3D-1>found. It might be=20 easy to figure out that all (or at least most all) of=20 the</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>EH3 specimen found in the = Sahara will (or=20 should be) paired, it is next to</FONT></FONT></FONT> = <BR><FONT=20 face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>impossible = to know if=20 your Saharan H5 specimen is one of a a thousand=20 stones</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>from one fall, or if it might = be the=20 entire mass of a fall. Or you might = not</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20 <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT = size=3D-1>know if next=20 week a new fragment for the same fall of your new=20 achondrite</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>might increase the TKW by 10=20 fold.</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20 <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT = size=3D-1>Thoughts to=20 consider.</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20 <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>As = to the=20 details of your specific question about pairing, you can find = a=20 lot</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>of great information at = Washington=20 University's site here:</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20 <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1><A = = href=3D"http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/moon_meteorites.html">http:= //epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/moon_meteorites.html</A></FONT></FONT></= FONT>=20 <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>I = hope this=20 helps.</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20 <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20 size=3D-1>Steve</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20 <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT = size=3D-1>Steve=20 = Arnold</FONT></FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></B= LOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C0A263.9A538240-- Received on Thu 01 Mar 2001 03:23:44 PM PST |
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