[meteorite-list] Poaching, Science, and Economics

From: dean bessey <deanbessey_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:43:28 2004
Message-ID: <LAW2-F47niSnRMWuLn500015474_at_hotmail.com>

Bob. I dont want you or anybody else think that I am against any of the
activities that are going on in the sahara or that anybody in particular
should not be there. There are a lot of people interested in desert
meteorites. And no matter what they try and say "In the interest of science,
conservation, or morality to the local population" everybody is there for
one reason: MONEY. Nobody is there who are not hoping to make a few bucks -
even if some people try to convince you that they are there for science or
helping third world people improve their standard of living. All of the
sahara players are trying to make money and have their own niche into the
market. Everybody does things a little differently. Some people refuse to
give coordinates. Some people give vague coordinates. Some peeple give exact
coordinates. Some people buy nomad meteorites with no coordinates. Everybody
is just trying to make a few dollars. Before you start attacking the loss of
strewnfield data though consider this: Australia closed the entire
australian desert because some american found a meteorite worth a million
dollars and that got a lot of publicity. Even after being offered half of it
the australian government decided that it was better that all australian
meteorites stay baking in the outback rather than in researchers labs. And
that is australia. Consider that these countries in the sahara are often
effectivly owned by a small group of people with self interests.
Then consider that the areas that many meteorites are found are in areas
that are close to wars, lack law enforcement and are away from civilization.
One bad encounter with a local paramilitary or bandit gang, corrupt police,
or jeep beakdown and a well preserved you could end up in a happy
researchers science lab in 4000 years time.
Is it any wonder that searchers dont trust governments or any other person
in the sahara and wants to protect the location of their strewnfield?
Everybody has their own way of dealing with the situation. You can be
buyers, searchers or both. I have not gone into the desert but I buy from
the nomads. Thats my niche into the market. I have to put up with the
problems of doing business in a third world country. I have to put up with
transportation costs, with dealing with corrupt government officials, with
dealing with unscrupules people, with going to the airport two hours ago and
and discovering that the airline put my package on the wrong plane and 194
kilos of meteorites that i bought last week is now sitting in a warehouse in
Hong Kong rather than in a pile in my living room where I had hoped that
they would be right about now.
But I am not whining or hoping someone is going to be feeling sorry for me.
Its called running a business. And I am involved in that business because I
hope to make money. Just like bruno, farmer, michel, the labbennes, the
russian and all of the other european searchers. If anybody stops making
money they will get out of the business. Its called a free market. Anybody
can go search the desert and run a business like they want. And I have no
problem with anybody being there. Not Bruno, Not the labbennes, Not farmer,
Not the pellisons, not the nomads. Finding the meteorite is more important
than letting it rust away for another 40,000 years because of loss of
strewnfield data. If the meteorite is not found that means a loss of
strewnfield data also.
What I have a problem with is when somebody tries to use "scientific
interest" to try and drive the competation out and therfore have the desert
all to themselves so that they will be able to have monopoly style prices
for their meteorites. When somebody says "My way is the only right way". As
the desert gets hunted out the current players will look elsewhere or get
out of the meteorite business altogether. Like everybody else if I stop
making money I will stop buying desert meteorites. Nobody is "holier than
thou". I just hope that if I stop making money off desert meteorites that I
dont take a page out of the pellisons book and start crying like a baby and
saying "I dont like competation - make them go away" as soon as I start
having a hard time making a profit.
The more searchers the better. And the Pellisons dont own the desert - even
though they have as much of a right to be there as the nomads who search the
sahara looking for meteorites for me.
DEAN





















>From: Bob Martino <martino.6_at_osu.edu>
>To: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Poaching, Science, and Economics
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:02:50 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from [216.92.1.92] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id
>MHotMailBD077C7A00514004314CD85C015C0D410; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:07:24 -0700
>Received: from pairlist.net (localhost.pair.com [127.0.0.1])by pairlist.net
>(Postfix) with ESMTPid F3E385367B; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:06:55 -0400 (EDT)
>Received: from mu.pair.com (mu.pair.com [209.68.1.23])by pairlist.net
>(Postfix) with SMTP id CB7BF53602for
><meteorite-list_at_lists.meteoritecentral.com>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:05:09
>-0400 (EDT)
>Received: (qmail 23331 invoked by uid 7111); 30 Jun 2001 20:05:09 -0000
>Received: (qmail 23328 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 20:05:09 -0000
>Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (65.24.0.112) by mu.pair.com
>with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 20:05:09 -0000
>Received: from [65.24.110.16] (dhcp065-024-110-016.columbus.rr.com
>[65.24.110.16])by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP
>id f5UK1ls01940for <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001
>16:01:47 -0400 (EDT)
>From meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:08:30
>-0700
>Delivered-To: meteorite-list_at_pairlist.net
>Delivered-To:
>arthur-meteoritecentral:com-meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>X-Sender: bmartino_at_pop.service.ohio-state.edu
>Message-Id: <v03130303b763dda72310_at_[65.24.110.16]>
>In-Reply-To: <20010630091601.E52FF53543_at_pairlist.net>
>Sender: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
>Errors-To: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
>X-BeenThere: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.0
>Precedence: bulk
>List-Help:
><mailto:meteorite-list-request_at_meteoritecentral.com?subject=help>
>List-Post: <mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
>List-Subscribe:
><http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list>,<mailto:meteorite-list-request_at_meteoritecentral.com?subject=subscribe>
>List-Id: <meteorite-list.meteoritecentral.com>
>List-Unsubscribe:
><http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list>,<mailto:meteorite-list-request_at_meteoritecentral.com?subject=unsubscribe>
>List-Archive: <http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/>
>
>All,
>
>I've just joined the list recently and have been lurking about until now.
>I'm fairly new to meteorite collecting, but am getting into it more and
>more lately. I have been following the "discussion" on the Sahara
>meteorites, but am not sure I understand it all. Here's what (I think) I
>know:
>
>In the last few years the Sahara has been identified as a major source of
>meteorites (some quite old). There are those from western nations who go
>out in the desert and pick up meteorites, making careful measurements with
>GPS locators, taking photos, and doing careful science. These people decry
>the nomads who go out and pick up whatever they can without doing the
>science because data is lost.
>
>There are others from western nations who buy the meteorites from the
>markets in Morocco and re-sell them to collectors. These people decry the
>"plundering" of the desert that the other ("scientific") westerners do
>because the local people don't get any money when they are cut out of the
>loop.
>
>Issues which spice things up on either side include bribes to government
>officials and police, rising prices, and the associated economic
>distortions of pumping a lot of cash into a poor area. There also are
>(apparently) ego and personality conflicts, name-calling, and the
>villification of those on the opposing side.
>
>I'm not looking for value judgements here (nor name-calling or other loaded
>words). I just want to understand the basis of the arguement. Have I got
>it straight, or is there more?
>
>
>My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>Bob Martino "I look up to the heavens
>Assistant Director but night has clouded over
>Perkins Observatory no spark of constellation
> no Vela no Orion."
>http://www.perkins-observatory.org -Enya
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Received on Sat 30 Jun 2001 11:11:54 PM PDT