[meteorite-list] update on pre-treaty Antarctic meteorites
From: Frank Prochaska <fprochas_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:37:33 2004 Message-ID: <NDBBICFKNKHAAEEJLDALMEMJCFAA.fprochas_at_premier1.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C0629E.8FA00E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do not have all my questions answered on this topic, but it has been a while, so I thought I would post an update. My original questions were basically do we have a general idea of how much of which Antarctic meteorites are in privates hands, and will the terms of the Treaty allow any more Antarctic meteorites to make it to private hands, and if so which meteorites. In the 12 years or so I've been collecting, I have seen Allan Hills 76009 (L6), Thiel Mountains (Pal), and Lazarev (Om - ungr) available either through dealers or for auction. Through some of the responses I received to my original post, some Mount Baldr (H6) is also in private collections. A check of database included in the new Blue Book indicates that two large private collections included samples from: Adelie Land, L5, 1g ALHA 76001, L6, 89.9 g ALHA 76003, L6, 13.2 g ALHA 76005, Euc, 9.5 g ALHA 76006, H6, 19.2 g ALHA 76008, H6, 6.4 g ALHA 76009, L6, 513.2 g Mount Baldr, H6, 55.5 g Thiel Mtns, Pal, 43 g (I haven't found any indication that the Allan Hills L6s and H6s are paired; if anyone knows the whether they are or are not, I'd be curious to know.) This list gives some indication of what is out there, however, one of these same collections has or had some Lazarev that was not listed in the Catalog, and the dealer from which I bought my 30 g slice of Thiel Mtns years ago at the time advertised slices up to 200 g. At least one person believes that samples of Neptune Mountains made it to private collections. Even if all of the ALHA 76009 listed in the Catalog as in those two collections is still locked up there, I am personally aware of pieces from specks to 44 g trading hands. I think this information so far can at least be used as a lower limit. Now, the question of what the Treaty says and how it applies is much less clear. First, even if the Treaty says that pre-Treaty meteorites can be traded freely by institutions, it is incredibility difficult to obtain any more of these pieces. One respondant to my questions had to put up some truly exquisite material to entice a small amount of Antarctic meteorite out of another private collection, and institutions do not appear to be willing to trade these samples at all. That said, I have yet to find anyone who can definitively answer for me what exactly the Treaty says and what it means. After helpful and courteous responses from a curator of the US Antarctic collection, and several scientists and policy folks at the NSF, this is basically what I know. The original Treaty was drafted by 12 nations in the time period of 1959 - 1960 and was ratified and took effect in the United States in 1961. This Treaty does not address mineral samples directly at all. It did establish regular and periodic meetings of the member nations though, and it is at these meetings that other policies were adopted that affect things like mineral (including meteorite) collection, fauna and flora regulations, etc. There are now over 40 nations who are abiding by the Treaty and these later provisions. The earliest official text that I have been able to find that specifies rules that would impact mineral or meteorite handling took effect for the United States and it's citizens in 1991, though clearly some other document addressed this issue prior to 1991. The most popular opinion that I've found believes that the specific rules came into effect in 1977, and that meteorites collected prior to this are exempt from it's provisions, which basically state that mineral samples are to be used strictly for research and educational (non-commercial) purposes. At least one person believes though that the rules actually came into effect in the 60s, and that samples of the Allan Hills meteorites were released before NASA and the Smithsonian had an agreement to handle curation that took these rules into account. I still have inquiries in at the NSF. If I get any further information or explanation, I will pass it along to those that are interested. There appears to be a couple private collections that have made sufficient assurances to institutions that samples will be used only for public display and education that they have other Antarctic samples on loan from national collections. This is considered use in accordance with the Treaty provisions and could allow recent finds to be loaned to private collections. But this is completely different obviously than samples actually owned by a private collection. Frank Prochaska ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C0629E.8FA00E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>I do = not have all my=20 questions answered on this topic, but it has been a while, so I thought = I would=20 post an update.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D089484510-10122000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>My = original=20 questions were basically do we have a general idea of how much of which=20 Antarctic meteorites are in privates hands, and will the terms of the = Treaty=20 allow any more Antarctic meteorites to make it to private hands, and if = so which=20 meteorites.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D089484510-10122000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>In the = 12 years or=20 so I've been collecting, I have seen Allan Hills 76009 (L6), Thiel = Mountains=20 (Pal), and Lazarev (Om - ungr) available either through dealers or for=20 auction. Through some of the responses I received to my original = post,=20 some Mount Baldr (H6) is also in private collections. A check of = database=20 included in the new Blue Book indicates that two large private = collections=20 included samples from:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D089484510-10122000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>Adelie = Land, L5,=20 1g</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>ALHA = 76001, L6, 89.9=20 g</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>ALHA = 76003, L6, 13.2=20 g</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>ALHA = 76005, Euc, 9.5=20 g</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>ALHA = 76006, H6, 19.2=20 g</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>ALHA = 76008, H6, 6.4=20 g</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>ALHA = 76009, L6,=20 513.2 g</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>Mount = Baldr, H6,=20 55.5 g</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>Thiel = Mtns, Pal, 43=20 g</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D089484510-10122000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>(I = haven't found any=20 indication that the Allan Hills L6s and H6s are paired; if anyone = knows the=20 whether they are or are not, I'd be curious to = know.)</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D089484510-10122000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>This = list gives some=20 indication of what is out there, however, one of these same collections = has or=20 had some Lazarev that was not listed in the Catalog, and the dealer from = which I=20 bought my 30 g slice of Thiel Mtns years ago at the time advertised = slices up to=20 200 g. At least one person believes that samples of Neptune = Mountains made=20 it to private collections. Even if all of the ALHA 76009 listed in = the=20 Catalog as in those two collections is still locked up there, I am = personally=20 aware of pieces from specks to 44 g trading hands. = </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>I think this = information so far=20 can at least be used as a lower limit. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D089484510-10122000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>Now, = the question of=20 what the Treaty says and how it applies is much less clear. First, = even if=20 the Treaty says that pre-Treaty meteorites can be traded freely by = institutions,=20 it is incredibility difficult to obtain any more of these pieces. = One=20 respondant to my questions had to put up some truly exquisite material = to entice=20 a small amount of Antarctic meteorite out of another private collection, = and=20 institutions do not appear to be willing to trade these samples at=20 all.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D089484510-10122000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>That = said, I have=20 yet to find anyone who can definitively answer for me what exactly the = Treaty=20 says and what it means. After helpful and courteous responses from = a=20 curator of the US Antarctic collection, and several scientists and = policy folks=20 at the NSF, this is basically what I know. The original Treaty was = drafted=20 by 12 nations in the time period of 1959 - 1960 and was ratified and = took effect=20 in the United States in 1961. This Treaty does not address mineral = samples=20 directly at all. It did establish regular and periodic meetings of = the=20 member nations though, and it is at these meetings that other policies = were=20 adopted that affect things like mineral (including meteorite) = collection, fauna=20 and flora regulations, etc. There are now over 40 nations who are = abiding=20 by the Treaty and these later provisions. The earliest official = text that=20 I have been able to find that specifies rules that would impact mineral = or=20 meteorite handling took effect for the United States and it's citizens = in 1991,=20 though clearly some other document addressed this issue prior to = 1991. The=20 most popular opinion that I've found believes that the specific rules = came into=20 effect in 1977, and that meteorites collected prior to this are exempt = from it's=20 provisions, which basically state that mineral samples are to be used = strictly=20 for research and educational (non-commercial) purposes. At least = one=20 person believes though that the rules actually came into effect in the = 60s, and=20 that samples of the Allan Hills meteorites were released before NASA and = the=20 Smithsonian had an agreement to handle curation that took these rules = into=20 account. I still have inquiries in at the NSF. If I get any = further=20 information or explanation, I will pass it along to those that are=20 interested.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D089484510-10122000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>There = appears to be=20 a couple private collections that have made sufficient assurances to=20 institutions that samples will be used only for public display and = education=20 that they have other Antarctic samples on loan from national = collections. =20 This is considered use in accordance with the Treaty provisions and = could allow=20 recent finds to be loaned to private collections. But this is = completely=20 different obviously than samples actually owned by a private=20 collection.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D089484510-10122000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D089484510-10122000>Frank=20 Prochaska</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C0629E.8FA00E40-- Received on Sun 10 Dec 2000 06:44:31 AM PST |
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