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Re: The Fight for Truth, Justice & the American Way, in Monahans!


Hello Ron and the list,

I ask you all to be patient with Ron and me here, as I see Ron is responding
to some of his own statements as if I said them.  I will attempt to re-respond
to this in between dashed lines...

--------------------
...like this, OK?
--------------------  

In a message dated 5/28/98 11:00:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
BAALKE@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov writes:

<< 
 >> Actually, this calculates to a little under a $1/gram for the Monahans 
 >> meteorite.  This is well within the price range for a common chondrite 
 >> meteorite - Monahans is an H5.  I've paid less for common chondrites. >>
 
 >Ron, the next time you locate a new meteorite fall from a huge fireball that
 >only produces 2,500g of material for less than $0.80/g, please call me.  
 
 Sure, no problem.  Just for your information, I've purchased the following
 common chondrites for $1/gram or less: Etter, Mills, Sleeper Camp,
 Norceteur, Gao, Estacado, Beaver, Guenie, Al-Ghanim, Leon.

------------------------   
Ron, please reread my request above!  I asked for FALLS (not finds) of LESS
than 2,500g of TOTAL recovered material.
Etter = FIND 153kg
Mills = FIND 88kg
Sleeper Camp = FIND 1.25kg 
Norcator = FIND 3.2kg
Gao = FALL, I think there were a few more than 2.5kg total found  ;-)
Estacado = FIND 290kg
Beaver = FIND 25kg
Guenie = FALL, hauled in on the same 20 boatloads with the thousands of Gaos
;-)
Al-Ghanim = FIND 3.7kg
Leon = FIND 30kg

Not one of the above is a low total weight, fresh fall!!!!  But if you do ever
find one for a buck or less, please let me know, OK?  I doubt you could find
one for less than $5/g.
--------------------------------- 

 << The $1,000 estimate is not an unreasonable one, and definitely not 
  "misinformation" on what was known of the meteorite at the time.>>
 
 Exactly.

 ------------------------------
Above, you are agreeing with yourself!  You made both comments!
-------------------------------

 <>
 
 >Wrong again.  If the boys had sold it to a reputable dealer, the dealer
would
 >have found out what it was and there would be many papers being written on
it
 >even as I write this. 
 
 Or it could of ended up in the trash, just like the St. Louis meteorite.
----------------------------------
I have never heard of any dealers throwing meteorites away in the trash!  My
experience is that it is University collections that are famous for getting
things lost!  Dealers and private collectors who have their own cash invested
into the rocks, tend to have far more respect for the care of them.  

NASA also told them that after the preliminary study, 20g is ALL that would be
needed for further research and that NASA would be happy to return the samples
to the city!  But sure enough, when the samples returned, along came a letter
and the begging started to get at least one of them back into a research
collection!  I will give them credit there, before they could have cared less,
but at least when they DID realize what they had, then they wanted it!

As a matter of fact, if it weren't for the swarm of dealers in the area, the
true monetary value of this would probably have never been known!  At least
dealers and collectors are interested in falls and finds even if they would
turn out to be ordinary and common.  
----------------------------------

 You do bring up an important point about selling to a dealer.  If it is
 sold to a dealer, then the price will be at wholesale so the dealer
 can then sell it at retail prices.  In other words, substantionaly lower
 than $1/gram.  In fact, this would make the $1,000 price estimate
 now look high.  I'm glad you brought up this important point.

--------------------------
No, dealers would pay say $5/g for a fresh fall of only ~2,500g and resell it
around $10/g (maybe more) in smaller slices.  Right dealers?  (Where are you
Blood, Farmer, Mitterling, Martinez, Morgan, Pitt, Casper, and the rest of
you, am I right?)

Let's take a poll, anyone out there willing to buy 100 grams or more of this
at a wholesale price of $10/g, post this to the list to show Ron that that is
a good wholesale price?  I would also like to know if anyone would pay retail
$20/g in small 5g pieces for some of Monahans 1998?  (you never know, I might
actually be able to get you some at that price, but first come first served!
:-)
--------------------------
 
 <>
 
 >The last meteorite I know of that is Brecciated that boys found immediately
 >after the fall was Noblesville, and it is being offered for a retail price
of
 >$208/g. 
 
 Surely you're not claiming that the market price of all common
 chondrites is $208/gram!  Obviously, the Noblesville was overpriced.
 Was this an auction price?

------------------------
No, I am not saying that, but I am saying it is much higher than $1 a gram.
Probably closer to $5 to $10/g for that small of a total weight.  That price
on the Noblesville is at Casper's site.  No doubt it is a "retail" price.
--------------------------
 
 > It was half this size but it didn't include cool blue crystals!  I
 >know there is a big difference between $0.80/g and $208/g 
 
 I agree.  I've given several examples of the lower end price, for meteorites
 I personally paid for and have in my collection.  
 Do you have any other data points other
 than Noblesville, anything else that is event remotely close to
 $208/gram for common chondrite meteorites?

--------------------------
No I don't, do you have any other examples of a fresh fall in the 1990s with
less than  10kg total weight selling for less than $10/g?  I don't!
-------------------------
 
 >but I think it is
 >safe to say that the wholesale price on this should be quite a bit higher
than
 >$1,000 total.  Even without the blue crystals.
 
 Wholesale prices are less than retail prices.
----------------------------
That's good Ron, we do agree on at least that point!  Or as I would say it,
"retail prices are higher than wholesale prices!"
----------------------------
 
 <>
 
 >They say some Uerlites and Murchison have Halite and Sylvite in very small
 >portions, nothing the size of these.
  
 Then I take back my words, the blue crystals are not as rare as I 
 originally thought, as you point out.

-----------------------------------------
To quote the abstract that is to be presented at the Meteoritical Society
meeting in July, NASA found: "To our knowledge, this is the first report of
these minerals within an ordinary chondrite, and they appear to represent the
coursest examples known from any meteorite.  Halite and Sylvite have been
previously reported in a ureilite and in the Murchison carbonaceous
chondrite."   

Jeff Grossman told me that Adrian Brearley told him that "there may be such
salts in Murchison, but they're nothing like these."  As I understand, halite
and sylvite are found in very small quantities it the other two meteorites,
and NOT in 3mm large crystal form.

I think you have made your point clear, "YOU would not pay over $1/g for a
freshly fallen Brecciated meteorite with blue crystals looking at you!"
However, I would bet you that there are a bunch of dealers who would love to
trade its wieght in gold for it!  And that if this would be listed at anything
less than $50/g retail, it will be swiped up faster than a tumbleweed can blow
across the Sands Hills of West Texas!

But that is just my opinion.  I hope we get to see who is right!

Steve Arnold
---------------------